The Remnant newspaper has recently published a fascinating article written by Patrick Archbold, a well known and highly respected Catholic writer, concerning an upcoming series of astronomical events which bear an uncanny similarity to the imagery of Rev 12. This seems to be of great significance:
On September 23, 2017, we will see the constellation Virgo with the sun rise directly behind it (the woman clothed with the sun). These events transpire during the 100th anniversary of the apparitions of “the woman clothed in the sun,” Our Lady at Fatima in 1917. What does it mean?
Read the full article here.
226 comments:
1 – 200 of 226 Newer› Newest»Thank you Emmett for alerting us to this article. It gives us much to ponder about the coming years.
Also of interest this day is that some American(?) archaeologists are declaring that they have unearthed Sodom. I wonder if this site will be glorified or remain a reminder of the consequence of sins that cry out to Heaven.
May God bless you and your writing.
Michael G
That's quite interesting! Thank you, Emmett. I don't know if you follow Charlie Johnston, but he says that 2017 will be the Rescue and the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. I certainly hope he is right.
Well, this is certainly an interesting piece. He seems to be using much the same process that Antonio Yague does in his videos, but he comes to a different conclusion. If nothing else, it's interesting that people are looking at the same ideas.
Emmett
Thank you for linking that and putting it on your site. There is no way that there is coincidence that Jesus mentions the King of France -- and what is occurring now (Fatima). He is obviously making an allusion so that we can connect the dots. I believe that God does things on certain dates for a reason (some may rant and rave "numerology" etc) I think its obvious that things happen on certain dates for a reason -- for us (who are slow) to realize the obviousness of His hand at work. People can choose to agree or not to.
There is a reason Mary came in 1917 -- and personally, I think its more then just the Russian revolution - into Communism, starting the month after her last apparition.
We shall see. (and connecting to the 100yrs, Mirjana in Medjugorje said that in 1982 she had a vision where she was shown that satan was given a period of time - 100 yrs - to do all he could to destroy souls and the church and that when the 1st secret occurs it will be the beginning of his loss of power and the end of the time he has been given -- if true - this also connects with the idea of 100 yrs (or that kind of time period).
As an aside but in the same vein -- Medjugorje apparently began (her speaking) on June 25, 1981 -- she calls herself the Queen of Peace -- 10 yrs to the day June 25, 1991 the war broke out in former Yugoslavia area (where Medjugorje is - Bosnia-Hercegovina). Coincidence? One can ponder and decide for themselves.
United in Prayer!
Michael Patrick
Thanks Emmett. I appreciated the author's remarks about "neither noticing nor caring" about what was in the sky above their heads. It reminded me of these passages:
"For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man." (Matthew 24.38-39)
"You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times." (Matthew 16.3)
Mark L.
My wife found a prayer card that had been misplaced a few months ago. I thought you lot might appreciate it.
"O most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of Mercy, at this most critical time, we entrust the United States of America to your loving care.
"Most Holy Mother, we beg you to reclaim this land for the glory of your Son. Overwhelmed with the burden of the sins of our nation, we cry to you from the depths of our hearts and seek refuge in your motherly protection.
"Look down with mercy upon us and touch the hearts of our people. Open our minds to the great worth of human life and to the responsibilities that accompany human freedom.
"Free us from the falsehoods that lead to the evil of abortion and threaten the sanctity of family life. Grant our country the wisdom to proclaim that God's law is the foundation on which this nation was founded, and that He alone is the True Source of our cherished rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
"O Merciful Mother, give us the courage to reject the culture of death and the strength to build a new culture of life.
"Amen."
A quick Google reveals that this has all been written about before. Here is but one other source, from a seemingly non-Catholic author who also ties it in to the blood moons and the Jewish Feast of Trumpets on 9/21/2017:
http://markconn.org/revelation-12-blood-moons-and-april-2014/
There may be many others. I just wish the author of Emmett's mentioned article, Patrick Archbold, would have at the very least referenced his sources instead of simply saying "according to my research."
I own the iPad App "Sky Safari Pro" and verified that the image in the article just mentioned does indeed occur exactly on the date mentioned. Going forward and backward by just a day causes the moon to no longer be "beneath her feet." The moon phase will be a very thin crescent. Unfortunately it will be opposite of what it looks like under the feet of Our Lady of Guadalupe, otherwise that would be neat too! I think it's quite a stretch to see a "crown" in the stars of Leo and the planets since they proceed in a straight line above Virgo's head, but hey, who knows what John saw.
Here is one online version of no doubt many programs which let you set a future date and see what the constellations will look like:
http://www.skymaponline.net/default.aspx
Enjoy,
Mark L.
That quote from Matthew 16 is so appropriate. One might paraphrase it, We can interpret the signs in the sky, but we refuse to read the signs of the times. I say "refuse," because that is exactly what has happened. With so many attempting quite literally to cast Got out of their lives, I suspect they may be deliberately IGNORING the signs of the times. Even one raised without ever hearing or reading a single word from the Bible will have heard of the apocalyptic allusions that occur throughout our culture. Older works use it as metaphor to powerful effect; newer ones seem to use it to ridicule belief in an "end of the world" at all. It's like Satan trying to tell us, don't worry about all that superstitious nonsense. The world will continue as it is forever." At least I know that's certainly how most people are behaving these days. And it's nothing new, because, as the Bible tells us, people continued with their day-to-day lives right up until the moment the Deluge swept them away.
All that said, this article is indeed fascinating stuff. The king planet in the body of the Virgin - the woman crying alout to give birth - and add to that Fr. Amorth's statement earlier this year that, if the Consecration is not performed by the end of October of this year, the first events of the chastisement of which we were warned would begin to occur any day thereafter. Members of the Fatima Apostolate, founded by the late Fr. Nicholas Gruner, all have the uncomfortable feeling that he was taken to Heaven to spare him the trials he worked so hard for most of his life to avert. (For those who do not know, he simply passed away at his desk in the office, with no warning. Though he was in his 80s, his health was excellent, and an autopsy revealed no reason for his death. I freely admit that all this may be alarmist talk. But there is no question, if one just watches the signs of the times, that we are indeed running out of time before the warnings of the Fatima prophecy begin to unfold.
.
The author of this article in the Remnant emphasizes that he makes no predictions, urges no specific action. On the other hand, there is one specific action that is always appropriate: Prayer. I know I will be adding the prayer Mark W. posted above to my prayer routine. Because we need all the help we can get.
I think this is worth a watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDMCu3lerH4
Really enjoy and look forward to your posts Emmett. Thank you from Omagh
Are we starting to see the seeds of this?
ARCHBISHOP BERNARDINI (At Synod of European Bishops) WARNS OF POTENTIAL FOR MUSLIM INVASION OF EUROPE!
VATICAN CITY, OCT 14, 1999 (ZENIT).- During his words in the Synod hall, Italian Franciscan Archbishop Giuseppe Bernardini of Smyrna, Turkey, who has lived in the Islamic world for 42 years, censured Muslims for their lack of reciprocity toward Christians' efforts of dialogue. The Vatican Press Office published the text of his address yesterday, which explicitly denounces the Muslims' irrational hostility toward Catholics.
http://www.catholicprophecy.info/muslim.html
chris
Emmett and Co.
This kind of article leads me to be even more eager for your next post Emmett! Things are becoming more exciting by the week. And with that a need for all of us who are, to a degree, in the know, to pray even more - to make time to plant the seeds with our prayers, into the ground of souls for the moments that are almost here. The awakening of every soul - including our own.
United in prayer.
Michael Patrick
JMC - "I freely admit that all this may be alarmist talk."
I'm not sure, given the state of the world today, that there is such a thing as alarmist talk.
one more......
it's later than we think,
http://www.blacklistednews.com
/The_UN_Plans_To_Implement_Universal_Biometric_Identification_For_All_Of_Humanity_By_2030/47052/0/38/38/Y/M.html
The UN Plans To Implement Universal Biometric Identification For All Of Humanity By 2030
chris
Did you know that the United Nations intends to have biometric identification cards in the hands of every single man, woman and child on the entire planet by the year 2030? And did you know that a central database in Geneva, Switzerland will be collecting data from many of these cards? Previously, I have written about the 17 new “Global Goals” that the UN launched at the end of September. Even after writing several articles about these new Global Goals, I still don’t think that most of my readers really grasp how insidious they actually are. This new agenda truly is a template for a “New World Order”, and if you dig into the sub-points for these new Global Goals you find some very alarming things.
For example, Goal 16.9 sets the following target…
“By 2030, provide legal identity for all, including birth registration”
The United Nations is already working hard toward the implementation of this goal – particularly among refugee populations. The UN has partnered with Accenture to implement a biometric identification system that reports information “back to a central database in Geneva”. The following is an excerpt from an article that was posted on findbiometrics.com…
The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHC
chris
Just a thought
Something I have been pondering for a few months now -- want to share it with all of you -- especially with the mention of 2030.
I find it interesting that our Lord told Lucia in 1929 that "like the king of France they will do it too late" -- meaning the consecration to RUSSIA and thus the unleashing of the triumph of the heart of Mary, which He desires that we all cooperate in (especially His Church by calling upon her to intercede fully in Russia's return to Him).
This obviously is our Lord declaring the same as happened in France - where, 100 years to the day there was the effect upon the King of France (and all of France) for not having consecrated France to the Heart of Jesus - Could our Lord be letting us know -- 100 years from 1929, when He spoke to Lucia re this?
Thus, 2029. And a persecution of the Church and Christians all over the world.
I believe it connects with Akita (the Fatima of the East). Where our Lady revealed on October 13 1973 that "cardinal would be against cardinal, bishop against bishop -- and Churches and Altars would be sacked and many priests and faithful would leave the Church" -
Could that FULLY play out around 2029 - 2034 or so (it has obviously started already -- with the Cardinals being in complete disagreement publicly now with the news on the Synod on the Family -- and with gay marriage and transgenderism rising - anyone who even speaks of Christ and that gay marriage is wrong etc is attacked and ostrasized -- will the attacks become physical within the next 7 - 15 years? Something maybe Emmett could delve into in a future writing?
Within the secrets of Medjugorje (there are 10) you could have the warnings etc from 2016 - 2028 and then the other secrets leading into the final 3 (Chastisements) from 2029 - 2040 (or before).
It would play into the timeline that Emmett and many others have. Again, much to ponder.
United in prayer.
Michael Patrick
Michael Patrick - 3 chastisements? Where did the 3 chastisements come from? I haven't heard of so many.
And I doubt we'll make it so far as 2030. At least, it seems unlikely. Something is clearly up for 2017. It's a long stretch of time between 2017 and 2030, and such a time period isn't mentioned in Scripture that I know of. It seems more likely that something like 3.5 years - either Gregorian or Luna years - after 2017 is more likely.
But from a secular point of view, I doubt we'll make it to the 2016 elections here in the U.S. There are too many things beginning to fall apart for the status quo to last much longer.
Mark W and all
I hope that things happen more quickly also -- we need a massive cleanup asap!
Re: 3 Chastisements - yes. In Medjugorje - Mirjana (who is the one who will be involved the most with the unfolding of the "secrets") has said that the first 3 are "warnings" to the world - to awaken consciences. They are events that will awaken many from their secular fog sleep. The 4th secret ( I believe its after the first 3 -- its either # 3 or # 4) will be the sign left on the hill where the apparitions began in June of 1981, as a permanent sign to the entire world that Mary DID indeed come to Medjugorje, that she IS the Mother of All and thus that Jesus, her Son, IS the Savior and Lord of all.
She has told the 6 in Medjugorje that the sign will be there "until the end of the world".
The last 3 secrets ( 8, 9, 10 -- thus 3 total) are chastisements for the sins of the world. Apparently Mirjana has said that each one is successively worse.
One can understand from the idea of the 10 secrets, that when they are done - the world will be renewed in some way - that the Triumph of Mary's heart will have reached its fullness - have fully arrived.
So, warnings to awaken people - so that they will understand that in many things there IS right and wrong and have the ability to choose what side they want to be on -- good or lack of good (evil). From this one can also understand that all 10 secrets will happen over a short period of time - say 15 - 20 yrs probably (all of them) at the most. Why? Because God would not warn one generation (the first 3, 4 secrets) and give them the ability to wake up -- to then punish/cleanse (the last 3 secrets) another generation 40 - 50 - 60 years later.
Time will tell if Medjugorje is real -- because the priest chosen by Mirjana either will reveal the secrets or he won't. There is no middle ground. In 34 years of interviews Mirjana has never wavered or changed this point. The secrets will come. The priest she chose to reveal them to the world has been the same priest since the mid 80's.
United in prayer
Michael Patrick
This past October 25th in the wee hours of the morning you could see the conjunction of Jupiter and Venus (like the Bethlehem Star) heading towards the Regulus Star in Leo and followed by Virgo (with Mercury inside) with the Sun at her feet, all followed by the scales of judgement in Libra. Could God be announcing Christ's coming? We used the application, Star Walk, to see the constellations of Leo, Virgo and Libra, but could see the conjunction with the naked eye as we looked to the east about 4:00 am - 6:00 am CST. We look forward to God's presentation of Virgo in the heavens in September of 2017, just like she was over Bethlehem in 2 BC with the new moon at her feet. (Watch the binary star, Spica, which is like a grain of wheat in her left hand.)
On October 13, 1884 during Pope Leo XIII's vision he saw Jesus talking to Satan. Satan asked for 100 years to destroy Christ's Church and it was granted by Christ.
*Between 1878-1886 the Pergamon Altar, the altar of Satan/Zeus, was excavated from Turkey and brought to Berlin. (They built a museum to house it, which is closed for remodeling until 2019 or 2020.) Originally it was built by Greek King, Eumenes II, in the 2nd century BC on a terrace in the ancient Greek city of Pergamon. It had been dedicated to the Greek god, Zeus. Later Antiochus IV Epiphanes (215 BC - 164 BC), Greek King of the Seleucid Empire built an altar to Zeus in Jerusalem. I have read that it was the Pergamon Altar that Antiochus brought to Jerusalem, where he sacrificed swine and told the Jews to worship Zeus. This was the beginning of the Maccabean Revolution by Mattathias, priest, and father to Judah Maccabee, who carried on to save the Jews and their laws after his father died. This book has been left out of the Protestant Bible.
In 1917 we saw Hitler receive an award from the German army, although he was imprisoned for a year afterward, and later rose to greater power. The rise of evil had also begun in Russia with the beginning of the Russian Revolution/communism. The BVM appeared in Fatima in 1917. In 1918 Padre Pio presented with the Stigmata. It appears the sacrifices of Padre Pio were brought about to offset the terrible evil that was arising.
In preparation for the 100th Anniversary of Fatima in 2017 our Bible Study is starting Father Gaitley's Marian Consecration - "33 Days to Morning Glory". We need greater prayer to Mary to offest the final years of Satan's power. Please join us. We are to start November 5th in order to be done by December 8th, the Feast of the Immaculate Conception.
Mark W and all
As an aside (since I have mentioned Medjugorje -- obviously I do a lot of that, bc I believe that it is real and it does fit perfectly into the timeline of everything our Lady has been doing and warning us of since Rue de Bac in 1830).
The message given to Mirjana, yesterday, is absolutely riveting. November 2 2015. You can find it on Mej.com (and probably other places as well)
And 2 things connected with Medjugorje that I'd like to share.
1) Just want to say again -- I find it very interesting that Mary told us that we are in a "moment of trial" in August 2015. She does not normally speak like this in Medjugore -- Is there something to the fact that she told us this in August -- have we BEGUN a moment of trial now? (everything in the world points to things getting worse - more intense for the worse) - has she confirmed with her words that a) yes, indeed things are bad right now b) they are going to continue to "heat up" as we would say?
2) Re dates -- Mirjana has a full apparition (bodily of Mary) every 2nd of the month - in which Mary gives a message to the entire world - each 2nd of the month. She also sees her one day every year - and will for the rest of her life March 18. (after each of the 6 receives all 10 secrets the daily apparitions cease -- they then see her only one day out of the year - and will until their death) For Mirjana its March 18 which also happens to be her birthday. Interestingly Mirjana has said that Mary coming to her on the 2nd of each month and the 18th of March has to do with the secrets -- and that when the secrets occur everyone will know why Mary has come to her on those days - the 2nd of the month and March 18.
And so, again, Mirjana, if she is lying -- has painted herself into even more of a corner!
Not only will she have to foretell 3 - 4 events (through the priest) 3 days before each one happens -- events that will be world shaking -- but she has now stated that 2 of the 10 secrets have to do with the 2nd of the month (one of the 12 months) and with March 18 specifically!
That seems like a lot for someone to just make up. But, again, time will tell the truth or lack thereof regarding Medjugorje.
United in prayer.
Michael Patrick
Our Lady said that there would be a sign of the northern lights in the sky before WW2, letting us know god is going to chastise humanity.
There's going to be northern lights coming very far south tonight in the north east USA. Perhaps a similar sign, perhaps nothing?
http://www.pennlive.com/news/2015/11/northern_lights_pennsylvania.html#incart_river_home
Fatima, Hope of the world, Apocalyptic Vision
O Woman, clothed with the sun
the moon under Your feet
You, in Whom Salvation begun
O Mary, Mary name so sweet
O heart so full of smarts
come defeat our self-conceits
renew our ungrateful hearts
O Gateway that to Jesus leads
O dearest Mother, Virgin pure
upon your children blessings shower
against the devil most effective cure
O come to annihilate satan's power
O sing with us a whole new song
of Unity and Godly Peace
Awaiting your Triumph all along
O help us fulfill the Heavenly pleas.
Rita Biesemans, at Fatima May 13 1987
KP-
I'd say "nah." I live in North Carolina and we had a spectacular display in 2003, which I imaged.
It's pretty common, all things considered, and not too unusual to get them even into the deeper south when the solar weather cycles through.
Mark L.
kp
you can see the most wonderous northern light image everyday at the following
just scroll down to--------Realtime Aurora Photo Gallery
enjoy
chris
http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=118673
kp
thats spaceweather.com
then scroll
chris
Well, I live in Texas. If an aurora makes it down here, it really is the apocalypse.
Fort Davis, Texas, aurora borealis, June of this year:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2015/06/23/aurora-borealis-glows-in-central-virginia-seen-as-far-south-as-texas-photos/
Mark L.
"Fort Davis, Texas, aurora borealis, June of this year:"
Well, that settles it then.
Oh Mark W you're Texan? That's awesome. I'm visiting Dallas this week. Love this state and its people.
Marianne, you have infinitely good taste. Welcome to God's own country.
if anyone has an understanding of a new rebirthed roman empire and the eu as a power
and a head wound announcing the antichrist
this is very interesting debate against
can start at the 12 min mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g_Xv2YhJOo&feature=youtu.be
chris
i might as well post the rebuttal of the previous post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1H7w8ob6jo
chris
The only problem with this article is the mistaken notion that the Star of Bethlehem was somehow just a natural occurence. The Nativity account makes it clear that this "star" was no ordinary star and no ordinary natural phenomenon. It was a supernatural phenomenon: ordinary stars don't travel across the sky and then suddenly stop. Trying to appeal to "retrograde motion" as an explanation of the movements of the Star of Bethlehem is not going to fool me. Also, it is a mistake to try to connect the events Revelation 12 with astronomy and astrology. There is no such conncection. The events of Revelation 12 have neither astronomical nor astrological meaning.
Michael Patrick,
Medjugorje is hoax at best and a demonic apparition at worst. I can't believe how many Catholics are suckers for that apparition. It is a major scandal.
it is interesting in that it states the seat of pergamon is located in turkey.
Way over my head to understand. I should leave all this stuff alone.
chris
Ditto re anonymous post that Medjugorje is a hoax. Catholics shouldn't be 'apparition chasers'. But I guess those that do follow it are missing a certain part of faith in their belief system and need to fill that void.
"They are missing part of their faith"
"They are suckers"
Ouch!
Do you ever ask yourself why you feel the need to engage in personal attacks on people? Personal judgements leveled against their faith life? If you say you are trying to wake them up, to save them, then I will respond that you need to be woken up to your attacks, anger, judgements. They don't do such things to you. This, in itself, suggests they possess a grace you do not.
Where they get it I can't say, but their witness outstrips your own. Something tells me my reply won't engender reflection or repentance, however, just more bile.
Hey everyone!
In all my years of knowing about Medjugorje I have NEVER met ANYONE who could intelligently speak an argument against Medjugorje except to speak nonsense.
Anyone who thinks Medjugorje is real (actually believes that Mary is calling humanity to return to God and that every human on earth is about to be seriously affected by some future events) goes to Mass, goes to confession, prays the rosary, goes to adoration when they can etc. Last anyone checked they were all things that I believe are called LIVING the Catholic faith. And again -- IF Medjugorje is not true then that will play itself out by Mirjana and the priest she chose, Fr Petar Ljubicic, not revealing the secrets (at least the first 3) to the world, 3 days in advance of their occurance, which Mirjana has repeatedly and unequivocally she and the priest WILL do. The people filled with such angst over those who believe in Medjugorje should be christian in their turn and either come up with an actual argument against it or pray for those who believe its more then likely a real ongoing event. Time will tell. Enjoying the banter and discussion! Emmett, eagerly awaiting your next post!
United in prayer
Michael Patrick
https://youtu.be/VPDRbO_qJ7g
Particularly at 2:36
MEDJUGORJE September 8 1984
Medjugorje precious place
chosen as fountain of Grace
herald of the Word Divine
strong and healing Warning Sign
You gather us, God's littlest kids
satan's temptations Heaven forbids
the toilsome voyage so worth the price
you show us the way back to Paradise
Dearest Mother, Fountain of Peace
prayer and fasting need to increase
as a Mother Your Son thee sent
to prompt us our life to amend
Sweet Mother, I love you so much
I beg You, just let me go Dutch
I'll defend Your Honor with zeal
You crushing satan with Your heel
I dread the day that You will leave
us poor wailing children of Eve
I beg of You to keep us close
O You Threefold Mystical Rose
The world hates who belongs to God
and treats them as a lightning rod
but the Victory is ours, already won
upon achieving a judgment of ippon
Medjugorje "between two mountains"
you teach us there are no "bargains"
in this life it's either God or the devil
either God's Silence or satan's revel.
Rita Biesemans September 8 1984
Michael Patrick,
We don't need Medjugorje to live the Catholic faith to the fullest.
I've known from day one that Medjugorje was false because from day one the seers have been disobedient to the local bishop. It doesn't matter how much "good fruit" is produced at medjugorje if disobedience is present. The other big kicker for me is that video of the seers in "ecstasy" and the one girl responds to an unexpected stimuli that forces her out of her phony ecstatic state. Real seers in real ecstasies cannot be startled out of that state by external stimuli.
I hope Pope Francis comes down hard on this false apparition and these phony seers and forces them to give back all their dirty profits to the poor.
Well, as I've said repeatedly, time will tell. Until then prayer. And I'm sorry that you completely misread my comment about living the faith. I said many many who follow or believe in Medjugorje live the faith because of graces they have received etc. I did NOT say one has to follow Medjugorje to live the faith. That would be absurd. United in prayer. Michael Patrick
Does one NEED Medj. to tell you to go to Mass, pray the rosary, to fast etc.? Does one NEED to read the daily 'messages' to get through one's day? Does one NEED to chase apparitions?
Does one NEED to follow their bishop? You bet. Does anyone KNOW it is Mary appearing there? NO!
Any good fruits of Medj. are not, in themselves, proof of its authenticity. Read Michael Davies past reviews and reflections of this subject. An eye opener.
One has to be able to properly discern whether their bishop is authentic and truly shepherding his flock. I have a hard time supporting priests/bishops who are more concerned about their egos and reputations and fail to do their due diligence- trying to evangelize and spread the Good News. I am not sure about the supposed apparitions in Medj. but I see tangible results unlike many US and Canadian dioceses who are losing congregants in droves. Maybe these Bishops should listen to the messages from our Lady rather than relying on outdated and at times useless bureaucratic Church officials. Our Lady of Fatima, PRAY for us!!
I was referring to the TWO original bishops decisions regarding Medj. and how the followers of this cult are not adhering to them. "Maybe these bishops should listen to the messages from our Lady"?? REally?? That was my point. DO you actually KNOW it is Mary appearing there?? NO!!
Emmett and all
Not sure if this is in your plans for a future writing Emmett - especially with 2016 fast approaching and the Year of Mercy starting in 4 weeks -- but I would be eager to get your take on the possibility of things (major events -- possibly what many call the "illumination of consciences") starting in 2016/ 2017. Just a thought.
You do well with mixing Scripture with the writings of the Saints and Fathers of the Church on things --and I read a good article yesterday that talks about how numbers/anniversary's do seem to play a role in things -- (whether people want to ascribe that to "numerology" or whatever is there decision) -- but the article pointed out that in WW 2 on Aug 15 Feast of the Assumption, the Japanese surrendered (that was one of the 3 if I remember correctly, points the author made) and we know that on May 13, 1984 -- barely 2 months after St John Paul II consecrated the world again (and Russia indirectly) the Northern fleet of the then USSR suffered a horrific loss of its missiles and some soldiers in an explosion (of course May 13 being the anniversary of one of our Lady of Fatima's appartions). There are some historians who believe this set back the USSR in a big way -- esp since some thought Russia would start an attack from that base in the northern Black Sea.
One can say these things are coincidence I guess. But I think not, personally.
My point with this is -- the author said -- could the "100 years" that satan has been given have been from 1917 - 2017. With Russia being the main tool that satan would use in the time he has been given (he obviously has been using many! tools -- rampant immorality, abortion, wars, and now homosexual marriage, destruction of the family and transgenderism) It would be great to get your take, Emmett, on these coming 2 years - esp the year 2017. And one finds former Pope Benedict's comments in 2010 extremely interesting and thought pondering, "May the seven years which separate us from the centenary of the apparitions hasten the fulfilment of the prophecy of the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, to the glory of the Most Holy Trinity."
Michael Patrick
Well if it is NOT Mary who has appeared in various visions then Satan needs to really reevaluate his mandate. People are attending mass, receiving the sacraments and pray constantly!!! Boy, the Satan is sure pulling the wool over my eyes!! We are seeing tangible results anonymous, NOT just words. People are declaring Jesus is God and participating in the sacraments as often as they can. They are truly living the message of Loving God and their neighbor. Hmmmmmm!!! My point was that local Bishops and many abroad should examine why this is happening and explain why these people are becoming Catholic again!!!Seems to work for me.
Michael Patrick – “In all my years of knowing about Medjugorje I have NEVER met ANYONE who could intelligently speak an argument against Medjugorje except to speak nonsense.”
Well, I certainly can’t let a challenge like that go unanswered.
In no particular order:
1. The 1987 bishop’s commission said there was clearly not of the supernatural (non constat de supernaturalitate and constat de non supernaturalitate).
2. In private correspondence, the bishop has called it a falsehood and a lie.
3. At one point, early in the events of Medjugorje, Bishop Zanic went to question the seers. His statement was published in 1990. Mirjana Dragicevic was caught in a lie under oath. The bishop doubts her credibility from that point on.
4. At one point, early in the events, Our Lady is said to have claimed that all faiths are equal. This is clearly not in accordance with Catholic teaching. This was also recorded by the 1990 statement of Bishop Zanic.
5. The various seers have been caught in lies as recorded by the bishop’s 1990 statement. When the bishop resisted the seers, suddenly Our Lady started saying that the bishop was to blame for the actions of others (some Franciscan friars that supported the visions).
>snip<
6. A commission from the Irish bishops’ conference also said, in 1990, “It cannot be affirmed that the events are supernatural apparitions or revelations.”
7. In 1991 bishop Peric replaced retiring bishop Zanic. Bishop Peric, after his consecration as bishop, “On the basis of studies it cannot be affirmed that supernatural apparitions and revelations are occurring.”
8. Pattern of evidence – the term “gospa” is not used in any other apparition, and has not been defined by the Church. At Lourdes, Our Lady defined herself as, “I am the Immaculate Conception.” But this definition was in 1858 to Bernadette Soubirous, only AFTER the dogmatic definition by the Church four years earlier.
9. Signs that were predicted have not happened – healing a boy in 1981, a sign from heaven in 1981, a sign within six months of May 9, 1982, a visible sign left in 1983, peace for Yugoslavia during the 1980’s predicted in 1981, the end of the apparitions as predicted in 1981.
10. Experts were sent to the visionaries in 1984, 1987, 1988, 1992 and 1995, but the seers did not cooperate or were “sick”.
11. Pattern of evidence – Marija Pavlovic has made a lot of money off the pilgrims. She bought a hotel (Hotel Magnificent), and was making money off the apparitions. There is no other example of this from approved apparitions.
12. One of the main fruits of these apparitions has been disobedience to two local bishops. Which pattern does this fit: Our Lady’s Fiat (Luke 1:38 - “…ecce ancilla Domini fiat mihi secundum verbum tuum…” Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it done unto me according to thy word) or Lucifer’s (“non serviam” – I will not serve)? Would Mary encourage disobedience against a local bishop?
Now, does this mean that you, or anyone else, is obligated to consider Medjugorje as a hoax? No. Unfortunately, it’s not that clear. As BXVI said,
“Although an assent of Catholic faith may not be given to revelations thus approved, still, an assent of human faith, made according to the rules of prudence, is due them; for according to these rules such revelations are probably and worthy of pious credence.”
That doesn’t give you carte blanche to accept everything. What it says, really, is that you may offer the assent of human reason in your own case, but that assent is without the support of a guarantee of faith or the charism of infallibility, but on the credibility of the evidence as it appeals to reason. To me, Medjugorje does not appear within the realm of reason. To you it may. But here’s the catch – it is NOT the obligation of the doubter to say why it does or does not appeal to reason; it is the obligation of the supporter to explain why it DOES appeal to reason. And you needn’t explain it to me. I am of absolutely no consequence relative to Medjugorje, but at least now you can’t say that you’ve never met anyone that could intelligently speak against Medjurorje.
Oh, and one last thing. The usual idea to support Medjugorje (or Garabandal, for that matter), is to look at the positive fruits born from the pilgrimages. Ok, here’s my response: God can make good come from any darkness (St. Augustine: “God judged it better to bring good out of evil, than to suffer no evil to exist”). And we should never – NEVER – lose sight of the fact that Satan can use many different forms to accomplish his goals (Douay Rheims – 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 – “For such false apostles are deceitful workmen, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no wonder: for Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel o flight. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers be transformed as the ministers of justice, whose end shall be according to their works.”).
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum,
Mark
And to the various anonymous posters - please sign your posts so we can tell who's writing what. C'mon. Give us anything to work with here, even a fake name.
Hello all!
To anonymous who obviously thinks Medj is not real. Possibly you could be a wee bit more charitable in your verbage. If you are afraid for the souls of those who believe its real you could pray for them and if you wish to use words maybe being more charitable might be better? Just a thought.
To anonymous who believes Medj is more then likely real -- You are correct -- there have been MASS conversions there over the last 34 years - as Scripture says, "By their fruits you shall know..." In regard to listening to the Bishop. The power to rule in regard to the authenticity or lack thereof re: Medjugorje was taken away from the Bishop of Medjugorje by then Cardinal Ratzinger (who as everyone knows became Pope in 2005) in 1991 (around that time). Saying (pretty much) that the Vatican would be the final one deciding on Medjugorje. Which is why even though the Bishop back then in the late 80's and early 90's ruled that he couldnt say it was supernatural -- only the Vatican now will make the final decision -- which is very odd for those who study these things.
99% of the time the Vatican makes an agreeing statement WITH the local bishop of a diocese in regard to apparitions, etc. But in this case (probably because Medjugorje is beyond what has ever happened before in re: to apparitions) the Vatican took control. The cardinals etc who did a study of Medjugorje from 2010 to 2014 -- have given their thoughts, decisions etc on Medjugorje to the Pope (Francis) for him to make some decisions (as of now) re Medjugorje. Many believe he will at least say for now that there is still a wait and see attitude (as long as the apparitions are still ongoing and many are waiting to see if the secrets begin to occur) - in the meantime that there will be no scheduled public talks from the visionaries - and possibly no public appartions allowed. But we don't know since Pope Francis has NOT said anything/made a formal statement via the Vatican, yet. So, we shall see. Exciting times! Prayer!
Michael Patrick
Mark W,
Just saw your post. So,
Our Lady has never blamed the Bishop for anything. That kind of talk would have raised red flags for the Vatican and numerous faithful. She has asked for prayers for him -- but there is nothing wrong in that. Bishops themselves often ask for prayers for themselves from the faithful.
Our Lady NEVER declared all religions to be the same. Again, that would make it obvious to most that it is not the Mother of Jesus speaking. She said all PEOPLE are equal in God's eyes, but that it is man who has made different religions.
Re: your comments about lies (# 5, # 3) from the visionaries. 1) what are those lies 2) If that is true then Cardinal Ratzinger would never have done what he did in the early 90's - which was pretty much to take any power of judgement away from the local ordinary.
Re: #8 "Gospa" simply means "our Lady". She does not refer to herself as Gospa. The people do so in the same way that we do calling her "our Lady" -- that all people do, who are Catholic. She calls herself the "Queen of Peace" - a title which has been used for a very long time by Pope's and the faithful.
#9 -- if the signs which you are talking about -- this reference, were true then 1) Cardinal Ratzinger would not have taken the issue of Medj under the Vatican's umbrella 2) The Vatican would not have wasted the last 4 years studying it. I have read over 10 books on Medjugorje and none speak of this. Is there a cover up? Even if there was -- then the Vatican and the Pope Emeritus has been duped.
#11 Marija like many who live in Mejdugorje may take care of pilgrims who go there -- a place to sleep a place to eat etc. If this has allowed her/her family etc (and many who live there) to make money on taking care of people -- then it's not really correct to say "they're making money off the apparitions" -- as if during apparitions themselves they and their families are passing a basket around. Maybe - if what you say is true - then it would be better for her to not be engaged in such activity. Various articles on the internet point to the Vatican directing the visionaries on this in regard to statements which will be forthcoming from the Vatican based on the 4 year study.
#12 - they have never been disobedient to the Bishops (again, this would be an obvious red flag to the faithful -- and again if this were so obvious then the Vatican would not have wasted 4 years of study and Pope Emeritus Benedict would not have done what he did in the 90's) Just because a Bishop states that he believes there's nothing supernatural occurring means nothing other then the statement itself. And it ended up carrying no weight because then Cardinal Ratzinger stepped in. Plus -- it was NOT a definitive statement of "there IS nothing supernatural". It was "we cannot say that it is or is not".
United in prayer!
Michael Patrick
Michael Patrick-
If you have not yet read it, I highly recommend the book "A While Longer," by Greg Cring. He has your timetable in there. It's a real eye-opener, regardless of whether his speculations are correct. For example, his chapter on the Simchat Torah is fascinating. In 2017, the Simchat Torah falls...amazingly, on October 12/13! (Starts outside of Israel the day before, and the day itself begins the evening prior - as do all Jewish days and our own Solemnities)
We also have a major asteroid coming close to earth on October 12, 2017 - "2012 TC4"
And we all know what other remarkable thing happened in the world that day.
The Kindle edition of Greg's book is 99 cents. *blink*
Mark L
Michael Patrick - As I remember it, Cardinal Ratzinger took control of Medjugorje because of the controversy, not to legitimize it.
You said that you had never encountered anyone who could speak intelligently against Medjugorje except to speak nonsense. I assume, from your reply, that what I've said is deemed to be nonsense as well. Fine, but do you see the problem here? Whatever is said against Medjugorje or Garabandal is almost automatically denigrated as nonsense. It's very convenient...it allows the followers to avoid a confrontation with their conscience (and that's really what it amounts to most of the time...not specifically to you, but most of the people that I've run into). But to be honest, it strikes me as the same tactics used by atheists to denigrate Christianity.
With regards to Mejugorje, someone is lying. Either it's the seers, or it's the two bishops. Those statements above from the bishops are not really cloudy in their wording. Zanic's statement is out there on the web.
I have also said that you have every right to believe whatever you like. You're under no obligation to convince me for the reasons I state above. If Rome ever legitimizes Medjugorje, fine. I don't have a problem with that. But until such time as the Vatican does legitimize it, I am perfectly within my rights to believe as I do as well and to explain that in what will be taken as axiomatically defined nonsense. In reality, the simple declaration of it being nonsensical does not make it so.
Mark L Thank you! Will do!
Mark W -- 99% of those I have encountered do what "anonymous" did in some of his last posts, which is just to rant and rave (as if almost angry that people think Medjugorje is real).
I never said Ratzinger, Pope Emeritus Benedict took control of Medjugorje to legitimize it. But the fact that he did so -- took control -- should speak volumes.
My reply actually should point out that you did not speak nonsense -- you tried to make actual arguments - otherwise a reply would have been wasteful and nonsense in itself.
And we both agree -- time will tell. Until then, exciting to discuss Medjugorje and also, to speculate on the times that we live in and what's on the way!
In prayer
Michael Patrick
Mark L and all
Interesting that you mention an asteroid that could pass very close to earth around Oct 12,13th 2017. I had read an article a week or 2 ago on the internet re: this (a secular site which could not have know the importance of that date to those who follow Fatima and our Lady's intervention in human history).
Interesting because Michael Brown on Spirit Daily pointed out that possibly the warning (an illumination of conscience) could occur at the same time that a comet or asteroid is seen by everyone in the world passing close to earth -- that all of humanity will be able to see and be in awe of.
Which interestingly connects to some degree to the miracle that everyone saw on Oct 13 in Fatima in 1917 -- the sun seemed to come loose from its place and come falling down upon the people -- leading them to cry out for mercy from God for a few moments in which they thought their time here was ending. Could what is coming - one of the warnings - have a sign in the sky at the same time -- be somewhat the same? Was God, through the visitation to our Lady in Fatima, be giving us a foreshadowing?
Interesting to ponder. God has always used signs in the sky to alert humanity to His workings. So, why would this time that we live in be different.
United in prayer!
Michael Patrick
Dear Emmett,
I was just reading that apparently the Socialist Party in Portugal will be entering into a coalition with their Communist Party to take down the current reigning centre-right government. I thought right away when reading this about Our Lady's promise that Portugal would never lose the faith in a way other European counties seem to be now-a-days.
I realize that a county's citizenry is a whole different thing than the government that is in power, but I was wondering what your take is on this, whether a Communist-included coalition government coming to power there, especially in close proximity to the centenary of the Fatima apparitions could be something to keep an eye on particularly?
Thanks!
Jason R.
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-eu-34767994
Michael Patrick,
Interesting that you just said "Could what is coming . . . Was God, through the visitation of our Lady in Fatima, be giving us a foreshadowing?"
I was just about to post up a quote from a video on Sensus Fidelium, where an awesome priest gives a homily about Fatima. He gives exact quotes from eye witnesses, which included information I don't really hear people talk much about. One of these things he points out deals with a foreshadowing.
Check out the video, particularly pay attention at 25:02-25:38 and 27:05-28:14. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3rGCNocB2I
REPOST because of so many spelling errors, haha, it's 3:56 am!
I find the discussion about Medjugorje very interesting though I don't know a lot about it. My aunts have all made numerous pilgrimages there, and before my mom passed on she was very interested in it. I'm a little wary of having much to do in the way of learning about it because the jury is still out, and my parish priest brought up to me that the alleged apparition of Our Lady endorsed a series of books that the Magisterium has been very clear contains theological idea contrary to Catholic teachings, etc., so reading it can be subtly injurious to a person's faith. My mom had the whole set of "The Poem of the Man-God" and she personally found it enriched her perception of the personalities of both Jesus and His mother in a very deeply moving and emotional way. She recommended them to me, but again, since they are still condemned writings and my theological knowledge isn't that great I was rather too afraid to read them, feeling I wasn't qualified to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak.
In any case, it seems to draw very passionate opinions from those that believe the apparitions are genuine and those that believe they are fake, or possibly of demonic origin. I've read that the certain events around the apparition presaged a major rebellion against the authority of the Bishop by the group of Franciscans most involved with the ministry built up around the apparition, which again gives me pause. This information again was passed on to me through our priest, so I'm not sure of the veracity of what he told my wife and I, so if anyone has any more information on that claim, too, I'd be really interested in finding out more.
I've gotten off the main point I wanted to ask, which is, are there any specific prophecies or exhortations for prayer and repentance that are unique to Medjugorje, that is, did the seers give any new information that wasn't already known through approved apparitions at Fatima, Akita, to Sr. St. Faustina Kowalska? If so, I'd be really keen to find out more if anyone who is a believer in the apparitions can share that information if it exists. I'm not trying to imply that if nothing new came from the apparitions in the way of prophecy that it would take away from it's potential legitimacy, I'm just honestly very curious with an apparition that seems to so deeply inflame passion in both the pro and con as to if the events have offered anything new or different than previous or subsequent appearances of Our Lady.
I'm truly not trying to "stir the pot" though after re-reading my comment it may seem that way. I just want to know if there is new information what it is, and if there isn't anything new added then I won't be conflicted by feeling like I might be missing out on something big on one hand, and being very wary because I don't know the theological particulars of the Faith as well as I should and could be easily led astray if that potential is there.
Thanks in advance,
Jason R.
Today is six months since my father passed away, if anyone has the time and inclination to join me, could you please pray this prayer with me for the repose of his soul?
" Prayer for Mercy on the Souls in Purgatory
My Jesus, by the sorrows Thou didst suffer in Thine agony in the Garden, in Thy scourging and crowning with thorns, in the way to Calvary, in Thy crucifixion and death, have mercy on the souls in purgatory, and especially on those that are most forsaken; do Thou deliver them from the dire torments they endure; call them and admit them to Thy most sweet embrace in paradise.
Our Father, Hail Mary, Eternal Rest, etc."
KP, thank you for sharing. I will check it out.
Jason, sorry for the loss of your father.
Re: Medjugorje. There is really nothing "new" about Medjugorje that is not already "involved" from previous apparitions like Fatima or Akita.
One can, I guess, glean from the apparitions in Medjugorje a "newness" in some things -- what do I mean? Well, from LaSalette on Mary has apparently given secrets. In succeeding apparitions she has done the same (Lourdes, Fatima, Garabandal) -- and by secrets I mean, things she told the children that they should not reveal at all or not reveal in full (depending on each appartion). In Medjugorje she has apparently - so the visionaries say - given them 10 secrets. (they see her everyday until they receive all 10 secrets - after they receive the 10th then they will see her only one day out of the year for the rest of their lives (the same day each year) -- 3 of the 6 have all 10 -- the other 3 have 9 -- they do not know when they will receive the 10th) I bring this up because no where in apparition history has she ever given 10 secrets to any visionary.
As well, if the visionaries are to be believed, she has appeared in Medjugorje every day for over 34 years. Again this is "new". Never has an apparition lasted this long. Really, when one thinks about it, its almost preposterous. There are some thoughts with this. One, many people think Medj is not real BECAUSE it has lasted so long. Others think it IS real because it has lasted so long -- saying how can 6 people (all of them children and teens for the first 8 years -- fool the entire world (so to speak). And another "new" thing that springs to mind is that she has apparently told the 6 visionaries that she will not appear again like this on earth - ever again. There are many thoughts re: this -- no one, of course, knows exactly what she means -- but when asked why she said this (the visionaries were directed to ask her what she meant) she said she will not have to come again. Meaning, I suppose, that things will be as they should - and so there will not be a need for her to come to call us to wake up and live as we should (as she has done over and over and over again for the last 180 years!). There is a thought I have regarding these things -- 10 secrets, 34 years, won't have to come again to us -- it makes absolute sense. Why? Because we know from Fatima that what is coming is the final moment of the battle - in this time - between God and Satan -- and Jesus has chosen this moment for the triumph of His Mother's heart. Even Lucia, the visionary from Fatima, said that this time is a decisive time -- people will have to choose one side or the other. So for her to come for 34 years and give 10 secrets makes sense -- we have arrived at the culminating moment! -- when God will act and awaken every heart -- and everyone will be called to choose for Him and goodness or for satan and selfishness. And then He will cleanse the Church and the world - and the Triumph of her heart will be here.
United in Prayer
Michael Patrick
Jason, Two things about Medjugorje that aren't 'new' but stressed in a way I had not heard before: Fasting on bread and water only on Wednesdays and Fridays Why? To discipline ourselves and because Thursday is the traditional day when Catholics honor the Eucharist. Fasting on the day before Thursday and the day after Thursday gives honor to the Eucharistic sacrifice. Also point #2 to pray ardently for Priests. They are the hands that give us the Eucharist. If they give up their vocation, that means no Sacraments for thousands of people in that community. Satan especially attacks the priesthood, we need to pray and do penance so that the priests are firm in their vocation and can keep up with the daily Mass.
Jason;
please provide a concrete evidence of this being referenced by Our Mary in medjugorje------------and my parish priest brought up to me that the alleged apparition of Our Lady endorsed a series of books that the Magisterium has been very clear contains theological idea contrary to Catholic teachings, etc., so reading it can be subtly injurious to a person's faith. My mom had the whole set of "The Poem of the Man-God" and she personally found it enriched her perception of the personalities of both Jesus and His mother in a very deeply moving and emotional way.
Chris
Jason R;
one more. As to this reference ----------- Our Lady's promise that Portugal would never lose the faith in a way other European counties seem to be now-a-days.
I have read that Sister Lucy said this applied if portugal rejected abortion. I am trying to get the quote reference for you.
chris
Michael Patrick - I don't think that the year 2017 has anything to do with the "Illumination of Consciences" (which is related to the various prophecies of a cross of light appearing in the night sky). I'm doing some research on this subject atm for the second edition of my book. The prophecies of the cross of light are directly connected with the sign of the Son of Man and the conversion of the Jews. However the conversion of the Jews cannot take place until the "fullness of the gentiles" are brought in during the New Pentecost. And the fullness of the gentiles hasn't even began to be brought in yet. I would say if anything, the year 2017 could be related to the beginning of the bringing in of the gentiles to the Church. Once the fullness of the gentiles has been brought in, then we have the appearance of the Sign of the Son of Man, the conversion of the Jews, and then the events of the Great Chastisement and the rise to power of the Antichrist, the battle of Armageddon, and finally the Second Coming.
Jason R - Chris is right. There are details concerning the spiritual condition of Portugal in Sr. Lucia's new biography. I have written about this on a previous post. I'll paste the relevant material below:
In A Pathway Under the Gaze of Mary, the Carmelites of Coimbra inform us that Sr. Lucia had once exclaimed out loud while meditating that if "Portugal does not approve abortion, it is safe, but if approved it will have much to suffer." Originally it was thought that the words "In Portugal the dogma of the faith will always be preserved, etc..." (which appears in Sr. Lucia's Fourth Memoir), was an implicit reference to the Great Apostasy, and that although the faith would die out elsewhere, it would always be preserved in Portugal. The details that have emerged in this new biography hint at an alternative explanation for these words, which makes a lot more sense in light of the current state of the country where Our Lady appeared to the three shepherd children in 1917. Indeed modern Portugal is rapidly becoming just as secularized as every other country in Europe, and the empirical evidence suggests that this country has not been afforded any special spiritual protection from the onslaught of the Great Apostasy. In fact abortion was legalised in Portugal in 2007, meaning that it already stands under the threat of chastisement warned by Sr. Lucia.
Instead of guaranteeing the perpetual fidelity of the nation of Portugal, Sr. Lucia appears to suggest that there was some sort of caveat behind these words, in that if Portugal ever does deviate from the teachings of the Church, then it would be punished even more for its sins, in accordance with words of Christ Himself:
"And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more."
(Luke 12:47-48)
http://unveilingtheapocalypse.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/the-third-secret-of-fatima-and-children.html
Emmet,
Thank you very much for your post - explaining your viewpoint re: the sign in the sky and any connection (if any) to possibly 2017. It sounds like your research has led you to any sign like the one St Faustina speaks of being mostly for the Jews to return to the fold.
So, I guess we could have an asteroid or comet - as Michael Brown has pondered -- in connection with the "warning - illumination of conscience" - in 2017 or before or later -- if it happens in that way at all -- but that the sign St Faustina speaks of would come later. It is greatly appreciated. I find this site to be one of the best concerning these types of things (apparitions, prophecy etc) because you keep things grounded in connection with Scripture, Fathers of the Church, approved Saints writings and when you do mention apparitions its usually approved ones.
A good place to share thoughts. Interesting to think about these things -- but to remain grounded in the Sacraments and Scripture.
United in prayer Michael Patrick
To whom it may interest - new restrictions from the new Bishop regarding Garabandal:
http://whatisgarabandal.blogspot.com/
Everyone
The above post is extremely interesting. Maybe those of you who are good at it can delve deeper to make sure this is true? It's on Spirit Daily as well. (this post / blog)
I would not be surprised if it's true. Seeing as the Bishop is new. We could be seeing something of the sort coming for Medjugorje as well -- that the mention of our Lady's messages not be allowed to be spoken of during Mass or any Church event at Medj. -- until such time of course that either the secrets occur - thus showing Medjugorje is real (and the same with Garabandal and the "warning" etc) or as such time in the future (many years) that they do not occur. The Church may end up holding back anything of mention of the "messages" etc until such time that the events supposedly predicted at both sites come to pass -- or don't come to pass. Of course, if the events don't occur - then the apparitions could be said to have not have been true - in both cases.
Personally, although I believe Medjugorje is real - I'm fine with whatever occurs in regard to whatever judgements the Church makes for now -- for 2 reasons.
1) the need to be obedient to the Church is paramount.
2) if the apparitions are true --then the unfolding of the secrets will prove this. And as long as the priests in Medjugojre speak the truth of Church teachings and lead the people to confession, adoration, prayer, conversion and Mass -- then -- Mary's messages will be happening anyway -- because those are her messages.
United in prayer
Michael Patrick
Hi Michael-
I dug a bit. Not to bedrock, because I wasn't able to find an official pronouncement on the Diocese of Santander website. It does seem to be legitimate.
They seem to be accepting it over on MOG, and Glenn seems to be as strong an authority on Garabandal here in the states as they come. He sometimes has lunch with Conchita and lives not too far from her I think. He's not disputing it, but accepting it as a 'trial of faith.'
Mark L.
"The above post is extremely interesting. Maybe those of you who are good at it can delve deeper to make sure this is true?"
Well, the English language sites I've seen are linking to a French site. So, checking the French site gives a Spanish language newspaper quote. The citation is to a Cantabrian newspaper that, to be honest, my decades old French can't make out.
At the bottom of the French page is a very tiny copy of what appears to be a newspaper. The headline says: Bishop forbids priests to talk about the apparitions in Garabandal. The rest of the text isn't legible from what I can see.
I couldn't find a website for either the newspaper or the diocese.
Someone that's competent in French could give that website a try.
http://lavoieduciel.canalblog.com/archives/2015/11/06/32891897.html
The Garabandalist Defense League is in full cry in the comments at Spirit Daily.
emmett;
thank you for posting the portugal and sister lucy info. I was looking for it.
chris
I was recently talking to a very devote Muslim educated in a madrasah. After I mentioned how our Lady was going to be instrumental in the conversion of many Muslims, my friend was saddened. Later, I inquired why this person was saddened and was told that Mohammad had predicted that a sign toward the end times was a mass conversion of Muslims to a false religion. I find it all so interesting at times! Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us!!!
Michael Patrick,
These 10 secrets; is the Vatican aware of what these consist of? I've read that only the children know of the contents. Is this true?
I thought Mark W. posted a terrific summary of why Medj. may not be legitimate. You can probably surmise, I do not believe it's from heaven.
Pax,
doubleknotspy
Mark W and Mark L
Thank you for your input!! I guess things will flesh themselves out in the coming days re this - Garabandal - Bishop announcement. As I had said before (if Medjugorje is real) I find it very interesting that she said in August "The world is in a moment of trial because it forgot and abandoned God."
She never says things willy nilly there (one of the reasons I believe that it is a real apparition) and sometimes when she speaks of something it is a forewarning of something about to happen/things on their way (like any good mother). She could have said those words at any time in the last 20 years (in any given year one can point out how things have gone to the dogs) - so why now? Is it because many feel inside themselves that something has turned for the worse (Supreme court approval for Gay marriage, selling of baby body parts, transgenderism run amock and the PC "safe spaces", "mini aggressions" nonsense has really just shown that people have started to completely lose their minds and are nowhere near grounded in reality.)
Mark W -- the "Garabandal Defense League" comment - very funny. (the same will happen with some who believe in Medj - if the Church does the same there.)
If an apparition is real then God will ensure that, in the end, it is proven so. Any ranting and raving now, does no good -- we need to trust and understand that God is watching over everything and to be at peace inside.
United in prayer
Michael Patrick
Michael Patrick -
"Mark W -- the "Garabandal Defense League" comment - very funny. (the same will happen with some who believe in Medj - if the Church does the same there.)"
I have to admit, I came very close to leaving a comment when I saw Glenn's name there - especially when he called a bishop a liar. But Glenn and I went 15 rounds a few years back at another site, and I already know how it would go.
I just don't have the time these days.
Michael Patrick,
I doubt God would leave us hanging for several decades as to the validity of Garabandal and Medjugorje. If he really wanted us to pay attention to these unapproved apparitions, he would have sent a supernatural sign to the local bishop as proof of their veracity. That's how it works with approved apparitions.
I always knew Medjugorje was a demonic deception and/or hoax but I had been more favorable towards Garabandal. That changed when Joey Lomangino died and a major prophecy was left unfullfilled. Now, Garabandal promoters like Glenn over at the Motheofgod.com forum will come up with all kinds of excuses for this failed prophecy but I don't find them convincing. Glenn has also accused one of the Bishops of Garabandal of lying and he even went so far as saying that if Conchita dies before the Miracle, then Garabandal could still be considered credible. LOL! Another strike in my book against Garabandal came when I learned that the primary seer, Conchita, is said to have married a divorced man.
Michael Patrick,
Do you know if the Vatican knows what the 10 secrets of Medj. are?
doubleknotspy
All
Re: Anonymous' comment:"That's how it works with approved appartions" - God giving a supernatural signs to Bishops.
ACTUALLY, that's NOT how it works. He wants souls to have FAITH in things that He is doing -- otherwise he would just be performing parlor tricks left and right so that people "believe".
As far as "supernatural signs" -- IF Medjugorje is real then God WILL be performing them - the 3rd secret is supposedly going to be a "sign" left/performed by God on the hill where the apparitions first started. IF the appartions are true --
Regarding the sign the visionaries have said that Mary told them, the sign on the hill -- that it will be indestructible and will be there "until the end of the world." (Yes, she said "til the end of the world") -- as a sign to all future generations that she DID come to Medjgorje and that God is real, Jesus is our Savior and Mary is our Mother.
I am at complete peace inside -- because I do believe, without a doubt, that the secrets will occur. Everyone is entitled to their opinions about all private revelation.
IF the secrets DO occur then all of the people who "know" that Medj is "demonic" (how an anything that leads to millions of conversions and thousand(s) of vocations, can be demonic is beyond me, but...) will have to reevaluate their position on it.
Regardless -- what DOES seem to be absolutely obvious is that we are at the final moments of satan's 100 years -- whether they end within a year of 10 years - it is here. We live in wonderous times.
United in prayer!
Michael Patrick
Doubleknotspy
As far as I know they do NOT know. They know all of the details we know (maybe a hair more) but they do not know the secrets. There is no need for them to know, either.
What the visionaries have said repeatedly for 34 years is that:
The first 3 secrets are "warnings to the world"
The 3rd secret is the sign that will be left on the hill and be there until the end of the world.
The last 3 secrets - 8,9.10 are chastisements for sin.
It is enough to know -- if one believes -- that our Mother - the Mother of God! - has been appearing every day for 34 years! And that she has come not only to call all back to her Son - but to let us know that God, apparently, is going to act in an unprecedented way - culminating in the triumph of her heart and the return of humanity back to God.
Mirjana - one of the 6 visionaries - will tell a priest she chose in the 80's - 10 days before each event (at least for the first 3 warnings - where God is awakening humanity from its sleep in selfish stupidity and sin)
They will pray and fast for 7 days -- and then 3 days before the event/secret -- he will, in some way, tell the world that we are 3 days from the first event -- and the same for the second secret and the same - 3 days before the sign is left on the hill.
Time will tell if this is true -- if the secrets occur - or if Medj. is not true -- the secrets don't occur.
In the meantime - Prayer!
Michael Patrick
Hi Michael-
> He wants souls to have FAITH in things that He is doing
In this case, isn't the faith in the seers? Isn't it, admittedly, asking a lot to continue to believe solely in the words of the seers over these many decades? I think so, personally. My own views on this have swayed this way and that over the years. I have visited there twice, once in 1989 and again in 1991.
One of the things that has bothered me a lot is this idea of "when the secrets occur, it will be too late to be converted."
Go to this site, which shows the complete set of messages from the beginning, and search for "too late" in your browser:
http://www.medjugorje.org/messagesall.htm
There are 6 'hits' of the phrase "too late," which deal with this idea of "when the secrets happen it will be too late to convert."
If that is true, then what is the purpose of the secret being revealed? It feels like a trap, like an "ah ha! Got you!" It bothers me.
Thursday, August 15, 1985 (Feast of the Assumption)
To Mirjana:
"My angel, pray for unbelievers. People will tear their hair, brother will plead with brother, he will curse his past life lived without God. They will repent, but it will be too late."
Taken literally, this seems to severely contradict Church teaching (and common sense). The Church teaches it is never too late to repent. "They will repent, but it will be too late."
That just seems like heresy. And this theme recurs. Therefore, the secrets are patently *not* to change hearts, since the revealing of them will be "too late" for people.
Now, if we understand this in a way other than literally, then we can't even talk about it, because it can be woven and twisted any which way. But if you read all those "too late" messages, aren't you at least a little bothered by them?
I'm not trying to change your mind, by the way, just trying to ask if you agree that there are some troubling aspects to all this. As I said, I am with the Church on this - undecided until the Church decides.
"They will repent, but it will be too late. Now is the time for conversion." 8/15/85
"Too late" can only mean death, as in sudden death. If it's sudden death, then they won't be repenting, as they will still be alive. If they are still alive, and repenting, even with their last breath, the Church says they can be saved.
"There are the secrets my children. One does not know what they are; when they learn, it will be too late." 1/28/87
This just sounds threatening. Believe the seers or else. The secrets, therefore, are not warnings, because a warning implies a chance to change.
Mark L.
Mark L
Thank you for your charitable words (most of the others who have questions ask with ferocity of words and anger).
You pose a good question -- Why is it "too late." What does our Lady mean by these words?
I think - in my opinion - it is 'too late' because -- especially in seeing when she said these things -- MANY years ago -- that she is speaking to the people of that time (and really she is speaking to ALL of us - everyday -- why? because we never know when OUR LAST DAY will be - as Scripture tells us - we need to be ready NOW -- her words then repeat this idea - convert NOW, place God at the center of your life NOW -- do not wait for the "secrets" - "miracles" - until it is "too late.)
She speaks to those who KNOW about Medjugorje -- who are on the fence and thinking -- "Well, I don't know about changing my life -- and placing God at the center, I think I may wait until the secrets start....then I'll KNOW that I need to come back to God and get my act together."
It could be 'too late' for that attitude -- and really for ANY of us who, even today-- who are waiting to see miracles, signs, etc. for us to change. If we believe that God is calling us (through Medjugorje or however we think He is doing so) -- we need to answer NOW.
It is now "too late" for MANY of the people who heard her words at that time -- many of them have probably died over the last 30 years! If they were waiting for the secrets to change then IT IS "too late", because, obviously, the secrets have not yet occurred, and may not occur for another few months, few years (or if Medj is not real, EVER!)
All she is saying, I think, is - I am calling you to place my Son at the center of your life NOW.
She is saying, do not wait until the secrets -- because many of you will be called before the Throne of the Trinity, upon your death, before the secrets even begin.
United in prayer
Michael Patrick
Michael, you're saying that it will be too late to put off conversion, because you might die before the secrets ever occur- so you bether cinvert now. The problem is that the messages explicitly state it will be too late AFTER the miracles start.
You asked how something diabolical can produce good fruits, such as conversions and vocations. Vatican II explicitly teaches that God can use nm false man-made religions to bring people closer to Himself, with the ultimate goal of drawing people into His church. If He can do that with heretics and even other religions, He can certainly use a couple lying tricksters in eastern Europe to accomplish the same purpose.
A) "Be converted! It will be too late when the sign comes" (Jelena, 4/25/83)
B) "Do not await the sign, which has been announced, for those who do not believe. It will be too late." (Spring 1983)
C) "They will repent, but it will be too late." (8/15/85)
D) "When one learns [what the secrets are] it will be too late" (1/28/87)
Just so you understand, I'm not arguing. I genuinely want to work this out. I personally take all this seriously, for instance, because of Medjugorje I try to fast on bread & water on Wednesdays and Fridays. And I am aggressively deepening my spiritual life. But I also can't ignore some areas which really concern me, about both Garabandal and Medjugorje. It's nice to discuss this directly with you.
Regarding the above four quotes:
A) Do you agree that it is never too late to convert, as long as one in alive? Therefore, the 'too late' here seems to suggest the Gospel message, "they will die in their sins," as in - suddenly, with no chance to repent because of sudden death. So perhaps this means the "sign" is a massive calamity which will cause many to suddenly perish, perish without having the chance to repent. In which case - it wasn't a sign meant for them at all. Yet other messages state that the sign IS for them. A serious contradiction, no?
B) This states that the sign is precisely for those who do not believe. Then how can its appearance be too late for those who do not believe? This again seems terribly contradictory to me.
C) This says that people will actually repent, but that it will be "too late." I have no idea what is meant by "too late" in this context. It cannot mean "too late to be saved," because that would be heresy. "Too late to go on and live a life of virtue because they will then die shortly after they repented," perhaps. But do you agree that this is a problematic message?
D) If it will be "too late" once one learns, then what was the point of the secret? This just comes across as a trap, and supports the point raised in A and B.
I'm not asking you to agree with my own issues with these quotes and thus change your mind or doubt the authenticity of Medjugorje. The warnings and the sign are a vital part of the Medjugorje message, and thus these types of passages should receive some pretty deep scrutity. I'd be interested in your responses to these direct questions (again, not trying to trap you, I'm just sharing what I myself muse over a lot in regard to these).
Undoubtedly, taken in toto, that is, with all the other Church-approved apparitions, we are living in important times. Perhaps we lean on all those other approved apparitions and give Medjugorje a pass on what we might otherwise find issues with if it stood alone.
(That, by the way, opens up its own can of worms. If Medjugorje were to stand alone, then we'd have to start examining things that some of the seers have said, such as 'we aren't talking about the end of the world here...get those supplies out of your basement!' as well as Mirjana's statement about 'if she were to die she trusts that another would receive the messages to give to her chosen priest.' She actually said that during a conference or interview. But...I suppose that's only human. What is she going to say to the question, 'What if you were to die before the secrets are revealed?' - "I cannot die! I shall live to see them!" It would be pretty arrogant to say something like that. So I give her a pass on that)
Thanks - and peace,
Mark L.
KP
Our Lady is not saying "better convert now!" -- One has to relax a bit. Our Lady speaks calmly, slowly I'm sure. She states truth. For many waiting for the secrets - it will be too late. Do I know EXACTLY what she means? No. Of course not. I'm not her -- and I'm not God, who she is one with as "spouse of the Holy Spirit". I can only muse upon what I think she means. But I know she is not coming off in a "you better do this, you better do that" way.
She states truths. We either listen or we don't. Simple. And when we are judged -- it is God who does so. Not her. She's just saying "Look, here's the way. My Son already pointed things out to you. His Church continues to do so. The Father gave all of you free will. I love you as my children. I cannot and will not take away your free will. You can choose to listen or not to -- but the Father is calling you , He has sent me and He's going to clean things up - His Church and the world." Simple. We can choose to believe or not. (for anyone who thinks Medj is not real -- its a moot point -- because Fatima IS real -- Akita IS real (unless the Church made a mistake on both -- they are both fully approved apparitions) -- If Medj is not real its moot because the message of Medj IS the same as the message of Akita and Fatima. Return to Jesus, God's about to clean house and Mary's heart will triumph. The message of Medjugorje is the same.
Mark L
Re "too late" -- Again, you pose good questions re the meaning of this term - via -- if they are about to convert, based on the secrets, what does our Lady mean? Correct - how can it ever be "too late".
First - obviously, if this is our Lady speaking - it CANNOT mean, literally, its "too late". Because, anyone returning to God, even in the last seconds of life, are embraced by Him as they return.
So, it obviously must have a deeper meaning. One can only ponder what that is - because as I've stated above - we are not our Lady and cannot know the depth of her words in every case.
Personally, I think it may mean it will be too late for a change in their lives here on earth - the effects from the change because things will already, by then, be locked in for them the forseeable future - (she cares about our well being here - physically, and the peace we seek and that she wants us to have each day WHILE we're here, -- not just in us being in heaven at the end) - so, does she also mean - it will be too late to change the way your life is? I don't know.
Does she mean -- in living after the secrets. Imagine we decide to change now -- and gain a great amount of peace NOW in our lives -- leading up to the secrets. Or - we remain in darkness, confusion, aggravation and angst now because we're waiting for the secrets to occur-- instead choosing the world as the center of our lives for now -- and all of the bad effects and things that occur in our lives because of it, now.
We have to remember she is speaking to all of us NOW -- (but especially at that moment - in the 80's).
I still think she means it simply that those waiting for the secrets to happen, before they change -- it may well be too late for them, because God will ask for an account of their lives before the secrets even begin.
I think the other main point is that she keeps saying "it will be too late when the SIGN finally comes". The sign is the 3rd secret. The first 2 could well be events that are of a nature where many are not here after things happen.
So she is simply saying "those of you waiting to see the sign before you convert -- it will be too late for you -- you won't be here anymore - God will have already called you before Him, for you to render an account of your life, so I'm telling you, choose God now."
Indeed - wonderous times!
United in prayer
Michael Patrick
Thanks for your reply Michael.
I don't want to offend Our Lord or Mary (if M is genuine) so I have to be careful. But sometimes I think, "wouldn't there have been left a sign to *help* folks believe, before the greater signs?" For example at Fatima, "when you see a great light in the sky" prior to the aurora. Then of course there was the astounding miracle of the sun, witnessed by thousands. These things testified to the veracity of Our Lady's messages right from the start. There was no waiting around decades for a sign at Fatima. It came at the beginning.
Of course I've heard of reports of many (hundreds?) seeing a type of 'miracle' (Host appearing in front of the sun - I've seen that too over there but couldn't discount it as only a visual phenomenon), but it doesn't seem to be anything like Fatima's remarkable miracle of the sun.
So Fatima, it seems, had elements which really got people's attention from the very beginning. Medjugorje has different kinds of things. I mean, just the fact they built that massive church way back long ago in such a tiny village, as though they knew the day would come when it would be needed.
Anyway...back to "too late." Upon reading your post I remembered a personal reflection I wrote in my journal, but it was regarding the Gospel's "too late" (all the passages about 'that day closing in on you like a trap').
Here it is.
I think that for those who wait until something obvious happens before they will believe, it will be too late in the sense that they will despair once they see all the lost graces in their lives, all the times when God knocked and they refused to believe. This will be the "final despair," when otherwise they would be able to (like us even), use or deepen their trust in God, the grace of final conversion will not be accepted because they won't have trained themselves to trust God in the face of their helplessness. In a sense, this is the "sin which cannot be forgiven," because the grace of mercy is extended but is refused because the soul it is extended to despairs in the final moments, seeing, as they will, all that they turned down. God's grace cannot breach their refusal to accept it (out of despair, pride, etc.)
So these are days of grace for all of us, to train ourselves to abandon ourselves more and more. So if the final test comes for us, we will be well-versed in crying out to God. "Stay awake, that you might not be put to the test."
Applying this to Our Lady's supposed messages, she is not giving a warning insomuch as giving a prophecy. That is, it won't *have* to be too late for those folks - but it will be, simply because of their life choices today.
In Christ,
Mark L.
Mark L - "And I am aggressively deepening my spiritual life."
Do you pray the Hours? If not, I can heartily recommend it. And I can also recommend a much better book than the standard English-language Breviary we have here in the U.S.
It's the Monastic Diurnal, from St. Michael's Abbey in Farnsborough, England. The translation is without peer and it has side-by-side English and Latin. It's only the day hours, but I don't do Matins myself.
http://www.amazon.com/Monastic-Diurnal-Day-Hours-Breviary/dp/B0081RF48W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447442830&sr=8-1&keywords=monastic+diurnal
MarkW
Mark L & Michael Patrick -
This is an interesting conversation. If you don't mind my asking, why not just read it at face value and see where you stand then? You both seem to be heavily interpreting these comments. Sometimes the simplest answer is the best.
Mark W
In an April 2, 2013 Medjugorje message, Our Lady told us as part of that message....My children, be my apostles who have not lived in vain.
I think of that statement often. To live in vain must be so painful to the Eternal Father. He created the heavens and earth and yet such a small groups of people acknowledge Him. If we truly feel like we are 'apostles' than we have a very serious responsibility to convert ourselves and to show by our life choices that God is the center of our lives. I think that 'too late' may mean all the wasted time we used up chasing things in vain will come back to scandalize us when we realize we could have spent that time drawing closer to God. I have realized that conversion away from personal sin and deepening faith takes years. For true conversion, that is to love God with your whole heart, soul and strength, not just because of fear of punishment, it is not easy to accomplish in a short time ie. the time after the first secret is announced.
Mark L
Perfectly put! I agree -- And interesting, some of the wording you used -- because I believe our Lady even said at one point, "they will cry out over their former lives and pull their hair and gnash their teeth." Which is exactly what you are saying. (which I believe there is a biblical verse that says the same -- one or two or 3 of you will probably be able to locate it -- that uses that language.)
And again - there are nuances to things that she says now that we will only understand (at least a bit more fully) after they occur. (of course I am writing this in the idea that M is real and will occur -- if it doesn't then...)
Emmett, thank you again - for the work you are doing (your book and this site) which allows us to grow, and think and pray over so much material -- we truly live is a moment that future generations will speak of and write many many many books about.
Also, just as an aside. For those following all of these posts! The best book I have ever read re: Medjugorje is Visions of the Children. For anyone wanting to know more about what is supposedly going on there. Its well done bc its done as a Q and A with the 6 visionaries. So, its as if you and I are sitting with them asking questions that most of us would want to ask. I say this because we have been discussing Medj on this thread for a while now and I don't want people to just read any old nonsense they find on the internet. Anyway. United in prayer!
Michael Patrick
Mark W
Yes, simplicity is best. I guess, sometimes we all ponder more deeply what do things mean.
And I agree -- the Office is a very good way of creating a time of discipline and prayer each day - and growth in prayer.
I would also, personally, heavily recommend time before the Blessed Sacrament! St John Paul and Bl Mother Teresa did a holy hour every day. Blessed Francisco of Fatima also spent a great deal of time in his church before the Tabernacle. As did St Maximillian Kolbe and St John Marie Vianney.
And Anonymous, -- a beautiful comment. NOT to have lived in vain -- chasing after and caring about worthless (worldly) things. We live in the world, yes, but we must put God at the top of all things and then each "worldly" thing in its proper place.
And your comment re: that thought, connects wonderfully with what Mark L and I have been discussing -- does our Lady mean "too late" because we will be shown our true selves before God and the beauty of the things of God and the worthlessness of things we have wasted SO much time on --- which not only brought us angst and emptiness but kept us away from being filled by God!
It is a good thing - all of us -- gathered in the Lord's name -- sharing, pondering things of this time and the actions of God.
United in prayer
Michael Patrick
Hi Mark W-
I love the Divine Office, and love that you promote it. I have the full, four volume set which I learned to pray in religious life. I continued praying it after I left, but in very recent years have been given the gift/taken up the task, of memorizing psalms in their entirety, and so pray it from memory now, which has blessed my life in ways I can't begin to share.
So for me, the foundation is: the sacraments (daily Mass and Confession twice a month), daily praying of the psalms from memory where ever I am, 3-4 rosaries (all 4 is my target), the Seven Sorrows chaplet each night (I consecrated myself to Our Lady of Sorrows Sept 15 of last year), fasting Wed/Fri and large, large doses of the Word, serving my neighbors. And trying to overcome my own heart - the most difficult of tasks.
But - I live alone, and used to be a Franciscan and was with the Trappists awhile, so I have essentially continued my monastic style of living while in suburban America. For me, it's what I'm called to be, and so to some it may sound like a lot, but it is a joy and my main ministry.
God-willing, I hope to retire next year and perhaps get some land. I love gardening and making my own food and things like that (I'm not a prepper though!). I love astronomy, solitude, space. I've thought about moving down further south and finding some land, perhaps getting some chickens, goats, pets. I'm completely burned out now and want to find some peace and quiet after a very blessed career which will let me do something different in my life.
I've actually looked around at land down in Texas. I've also looked elsewhere, looking for nice weather, inexpensive land, open spaces, friendly people.
Mark L.
p.s. I'm not sure what your other question meant:
> why not just read it at face value and see where you stand then? You both seem to be heavily interpreting these comments.
Most of my posts did show a very literal interpretation. Only near the end did I begin saying: "The only way these can fly for me is if I interpret them heavily." I'm deliberately remaining in a back-and-forth conversational style, which isn't easy to show in this format. Rather like having a beer at a bar and scratching one's chin, discussing the issues and possibilities.
For me, a phenomenon like Medjugorje only makes sense with an idea of Mary raising up and strengthening the faithful as a massive "force of prayer and reparation" for the world. I'm pretty uncomfortable with the idea of "secrets" for the purpose of "converting sinners," the very sinners for whom it will be "too late" once the "secrets" are revealed.
But, for me, that conundrum, that apparent contradiction, isn't enough for me to shut the door on it entirely. As long as Rome has not yet officially shut the door on it, for me personally I would find it pure hubris to make a personal declaration on what Rome has not yet judged on. So I try to "despoil the Egyptians" with it - use it to help keep me on the straight and narrow while not leaning on it in any way.
I do have to confess though, I wonder if I would keep up the fasting if Medjugorje was declared bunk. I say this even knowing the great spiritual and physical benefits I have gained from it. I think I have a propensity to get too serious about things. No, I KNOW I do!
Mark L.
Mark L
Sounds like you are trying to live a good prayer life! A wonderful thing.
Re: "secrets" to convert sinners. I think the first few events (secrets) are things that will happen that of their nature will shake consciences - maybe not so much sent by God to do so -- but of course, in the unbelievable madness that has overtaken our world -- only He knows what we need to wake up.
The 3rd secret - the sign is for everyone. The lost and hardened sinners to realize that there very very well may be a God and for the believers to grow in belief.
And possibly one of the 3 things (secrets) is the "illumination" that many speak of - but again, then that would be for everyone not just the lost and hardened sinners -- but for those trying to stay close to God to grow in holiness.
In prayer
Michael Patrick
Some points to ponder about the legitimacy of Medjugorje: It claims to be a continuation of Fatima and the “last appearance of Jesus or Mary on earth,” but strangely no exhortation to the devotion of the Five First Saturdays, which Our Lady of Fatima asked for in reparation for the five kinds of offenses and blasphemies against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
In '81 the Gospa announced that a four-year-old boy would be healed, but never happened. A sign from heaven predicted by the visionaries for August 17, 1981, never materialized. Ivan, in a signed statement, on May 9, 1982, said that a sign would appear in six months – a “huge shrine in Medjugorje” in memory of the Gospa’s apparitions. It never materialized. In 1983 the visionaries said a “visible sign” would be left at Medjugorje in perpetuity. But this has not happened.
In September, 1981, the prophecy that “Germany and the U.S. will be destroyed,…the Pope will be exiled to Turkey,” never took place. Nor did peace for Yugoslavia predicted by the Gospa during the 80s. Yugoslavia broke up during the Bosnian war, 1992-95, leading to the violent separation of Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina from Serbia.
sam
Dear Chris,
I don't know if this is concrete evidence, but I did a Google search on "Poem of the Man-God" and "Medjugorje" and there are many links to the controversy of what the visionaries have said about the writings; this is from a section from the Wikipedia page on Poem of the Man-God:
"The purported Medjugorje visionairies Marija Pavlovic and Vicka Ivankovic have stated that Maria Valtorta’s records of her conversations with Jesus are truthful.[31] According to a statement Ivankovic made on January 27, 1988, in 1981 the Virgin Mary told her at Medjugorje: "If a person wants to know Jesus he should read Maria Valtorta. That book is the truth"."
The quote itself is taken from the book Words from Heaven: Messages of Our Lady from Medjugorje: a documented record of the messages and their meanings Saint James Publishing, 1990: ISBN 1-878909-05-3 page 145. Again, I can't comment on the veracity of this other than there are many, many webpages that report the same thing, and I couldn't find a one disputing the claim or any mention of Vicka retracting or denying this in any way, so, again, it does raise some issues, both theology and regarding obedience to the teaching authority Jesus granted the Magisterium.
I guess it's hard for me to understand how Our Lady would directly contradict decisions/proclamations made at the very top echelons of the hierarchy of the Church. It's definitely problematic at the very least.
I may come across as a Medjugorje-basher, but I'm really not; I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude towards it, and am glad that the Church is going to make a pronouncement on it after the investigations are done so the issue will be settled. I'm actually hoping it is real because I'm scared with so many passionate followers of the apparition that some might leave the Church if it finds Medjugorje to not be a valid apparition.
Thank you Emmett for that clarifying background info on Fatima vis-a-vis Portugal's place in the apostasy we seem to be living through right now, I appreciate it!
Jason R.
p.s. Since I saw the Liturgy of the Hours mentioned I thought I'd share that there is an app for praying along them. My wife uses it as it's part of her 3rd order Disc. Carmelite obligations... the app shows how many people are praying together, and their locations all over the globe via a map. It's pretty cool, and really probably helpful to anyone who follows these prayers.
More information on the rather intricate/intimate connection between Poem of the Man-God and Medjugorje, including an audio clip:
http://www.mariavaltortawebring.com/Pages/014_1988.htm
The Virgin was accustomed to reciting the Our father with the seers. (But how could Our Lady say: "Forgive us our trespasses," since she has none? At Lourdes, Our Lady was careful to keep her lips closed during all the Paters and Aves, reciting only the Gloria Patris.)
The Virgin: "I do not dispose of all graces...Jesus prefers that you address your petitions directly to him, rather than through an intermediary."
This is protestantism. Our Lady is not a protestant. So this quote alone would prove that it's a false apparition.
Mirjana: "I recently asked the Virgin this question (whether many souls are damned), and she told me that nowadays most souls go to Purgatory." (book by Fr. Faricy, p. 64)
This is a clearly false teaching in direct opposition to the teaching of the Holy Bible, Fatima, St. Louis de Montfort, Pope Gregory the Great, St. Alphonsus, St. Anthony Claret, St. Augustine, etc., etc. ( A clear indicator that Medjugorje is NOT a continuation of Fatima).
sam
Jason
Thank you for the info.
as
I do not take your comments about medjugorje as bashing, rather as a critical look at a unusual religious happening.. I think and enjoy some of the informed opinions and perspectives posted on emmetts site. I find them instuctive and informative. I hestiate to post because my opinion runs more on the emotional response rather than the educated. So i like reading comments opined here.
I guess it is all personal viewpoint on unapproved (some) visitations.
However, my guess is that most of us agree that something is close and it will not be pleasant.
One comment however. I have read here about the three days of darkness being viewed as immagined. The Lady speaks and warns of continents disappearing and volcanoes errupting. I think it is- cities sliding and country's enveloped .......That would provide plenty of sun blocking dust. Unfortunately for us..
Also biblicaly, it tells of our earth being thrown out of orbit and wobbling. If there is a large planet pulling on our gravity, or a pole shift, the north pole could slide to the equator with rapidity..
This would cause the appearace of stars dropping from the sky etc and cause world wide water events of unknown magnitude. not pleasant thoughts!!!
I think this might be the future we are warned of if we don't change.
Hopefully , i have a vivid imagination.
chris
in the last minute of this video, the answer to why medjugorje is so important to our time.
http://www.sign.org/videos/5-things-to-know-about-marian-apparitions
chris
Father Mitch Pacwa from EWTN on "Poem of the Man God" link:
https://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/VALTORTA.TXT
I have read the book, but I believe what the Church says ( and Fr. Pacwa). It is not inspired. That's what I read from reliable sources such as the link posted above. I report...you decide-- and the supposed statement of the BVM that this book is true, also effects the truth of those apparitions of Medjugorje. Don't want to continue the endless debate about it--just throwing some light on the subject.
And a question to Emmett:
I re-read part of Dupont's book last night quoting the "Ecstatic of Tours" as it pertains to what will happen to France in the near future. Did you do a post on that nun? Do you have any thoughts on how things are unfolding in France and Europe given the many prophecies about the influx of Muslims, and wars decimating the country and the eventual (but slow to come) re-conversion of the eldest daughter of the Church--given the state of affairs there these last few days? And is this a portent of things to soon come?
Also, given the results of the synod and the intentionally vague compromise that essentially allows divorced catholics to remarry and receive communion (depending on what bishop you go to for that privilege), I wondered what your thoughts are on that. People will have varying opinions but I would suggest that,if anyone really wants to know what's really going on behind the scenes, read the Rorate Caeli blog. But I'm particularly interested in your opinion Emmett as you've done so much research on the future of the Church.
Thanks for all you do on the blog to inform us about upcoming events! God bless you!
rose
sam
you have combined two messages
August 31, 1982
"I do not dispense all graces. I receive from God what I obtain through prayer. God has placed His complete trust in me. I protect particularly those who have been consecrated to me. The great sign has been granted. It will appear independently of the conversion of the people."
September 4, 1982
"Jesus prefers that you address yourselves directly to Him rather than through an intermediary. In the meantime, if you wish to give yourselves completely to God and if you wish that I be your protector, then confide to me all your intentions, your fasts, and your sacrifices so that I can dispose of them according to the will of God."
i offer the possibility of a different conclusion.
chris
chris
emmett;
todays gospel------Jesus said to his disciples:
"
"And then they will see 'the Son of Man coming in the clouds'
with great power and glory,
and then he will send out the angels
and gather his elect from the four winds,
from the end of the earth to the end of the sky.
"Learn a lesson from the fig tree.
When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves,
you know that summer is near.
In the same way, when you see these things happening,
know that he is near, at the gates.
Amen, I say to you,
this generation will not pass away
until all these things have taken place.
Heaven and earth will pass away,
but my words will not pass away.
"But of that day or hour, no one knows,
neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father..carries the fig tree reference that i find some protestants us to argue for the dating of the third temple, jewish return to israel, start of the "tribulation". However i don't think catholic thought agree. May i ask you to comment please.
thanks
chris
Chris, the fig tree refers to the people of Israel. It is the same fig tree that Christ cursed and withered, which represented the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple due to the unbelief of the Jews. While one small element of the sign of the withered fig tree putting forth leaves refers to the restoration of Israel, its primary symbolism is that of the conversion of the Jews towards the end of the world.
Thanks Emmett
From chasing the bread crumbs, it seems to me that a more defined interpretation of this symbolism
by protestants, using a broad brush, is that 1948's Jew returning to Israel starts a countdown of this gospel in that " this generation will not pass away till........
Some use 1967 and jeruselem as the start.
My question is --------- Is this a reference to the end of the age or to the end of the world. I guess that is the difference of interpretation of different religious groups?
My difficulty arises in if this is the end of the age argument and israel emerges as the greater israel and the temple is built-this prepares us for the abomination's appearance. And i thought that this can only occur towards the end of time. It is a souce of confusion for me.
If i present an understandable issue may i ask for your comment?
thanks
chris
Chris, the phrase "this generation will not pass away till..." refers to the Second Coming. As soon as the fig tree puts forth its leaves (i.e. the conversion of Israel), Christ will be at the very gates. Catholics believe that the Second Coming will bring about the end of the world, rather than the end of an age. Protestant pre and post millennialists would see this as the end of an age, but not Catholics.
thank you !!
chris
Wipe Steve's filthy words off this blog. I denounce them.
Mark L.
Mark L
I find them laughable. Everyone has their opinion. None of us is perfect. By 2017 -- we shall see. Charlie Johnson I believe (someone said here earlier) has made a strong prediction about things being in 2017. Time will tell.
I look forward to Emmett's next post.
In prayer
Michael Patrick
Thank you, Emmett
wait...who's steve?
What happened?
Medjugorje is very important. Obedience is more important.
At the time when Fatima was occurring alot of false apparitions where rampant in the geographical vicinity of the true Fatima. It goes to show you that it's no easy task for church investigators to sort through it all.
At the time when Fatima was occurring alot of false apparitions where rampant in the geographical vicinity of the true Fatima. It goes to show you that it's no easy task for church investigators to sort through it all.
Medjugorje is very important. Obedience is more important.
Medjugorje is very important? This false apparition occurred one month after the attempt on JPII's life. The professional assassin Ali Agca said he couldn't believe the Pope survived. At Medjugorje, the Blessed Virgin prayed the Hail Mary. It is impossible for the Virgin Mary to pray the Hail Mary. Impossible. One diabolic deception following another. The devil will endeavor to deceive even the elect. Wake up!
Steve
Before you post things you really should do some homework.
First of all it is known that she has NEVER prayed to herself (Hail Mary). If she did Medj would have been said to be false YEARS ago!!! And the Vatican itself wouldn't have wasted 3 years and thousands of man hours to study it! (2010 - 2014)
There are many good websites and books out there Steve. Please do some research before posting absolute nonsense. Thank you.
United in prayer
Michael Patrick
I happened to open my copy of St. Faustina's diary this morning, and randomly struck upon paragraph 699:
My daughter, tell the whole world about My inconceivable mercy. I desire that the Feast of Mercy be a refuge and shelter for all souls, and especially for poor sinners. On that day the very depths of My tender mercy are open. I pour out a whole ocean of graces upon those souls who approach the fount of My mercy. The soul that will go to Confession and receive Holy Communion shall obtain complete forgiveness of sins and punishment. On that day all the divine floodgates through which graces flow are opened. Let no soul fear to draw near to Me, even though its sins be as scarlet. My mercy is so great that no mind, be it of man or of angel, will be able to fathom it throughout all eternity. Everything that exists has come forth from the very depths of My most tender mercy. Every soul in its relation to Me will contemplate My love and mercy throughout eternity. The Feast of Mercy emerged from My very depths of tenderness. It is My desire that it be solemnly celebrated on the first Sunday after Easter. Mankind will not have peace until it turns to the Fount of My Mercy.
We're about to embark on the year of Mercy as defined by Rome. I wonder if there's some significance to the specific Divine Mercy Sunday within the Year of Mercy.
Emmett -
I just bumped into the Ecstatic of Tours. Do you know this one? Have you written anything about this?
Revolution will break out in Italy almost at the same time as in France.
After the past week in France, and with the warnings in place for Italy, could this have something to do with the current state of worldly affairs?
I understand that this was written in the 1800's, so it can't be part of the French Revolution.
Mark, I stand corrected. Our Lady regularly prayed the Our Father at Medjugorje.
When asked by the seers at the request of a priest if people should pray to Jesus or to Mary, responds: "Please pray to Jesus. I am His mother and I intercede for you with Him. But all prayer goes to Jesus. I will help. I will pray, but everything does not depend only on me." And Vicka when asked whether she feels the Virgin is one who gives graces or one who prays to God, replies, "She who prays to God."
To reduce the Mediatrix of all graces, our Co-Redemptrix, the Mother of God, to merely one who prays to God is unthinkable. This is clearly not Catholic but Protestant doctrine. And this is not the only deviation from Catholic doctrine in regards to Our Lady.
The Blessed Virgin Mary, being totally without sin, would never say the Our Father, since it contains the phrase "forgive us our trespasses, " since this would not be fitting, for it would imply that She had sins to be forgiven. Our Lady at Lourdes would remain silent during the Rosary except for the Glory Be's, which She would repeat with Bernadette. The fact that the "Virgin" of Medjugorje regularly recites the Our Father with the seers represents a great theological difficulty, since this appears to be a subtle denial of the perpetual sinlessness of Mary.
http://www.rosesfromheaven.com/medjugorje.html
to steven
An early response from medjugorje to the person/group you are quoting''
https://www.medjugorje.org/svetletter.htm
Father Svet Writes to E. Michael Jones
Editors' note: In the Spring 1998 editorial we said we would print anything the priests of St. James said in response to the recent accusations against Medjugorje. We now print the following letter and ask that you all join us in praying for Michael Jones and all those he is affiliated with. It is what Blessed Mother said to do when Ivan asked her what to do about the accusations. She said simply, "Pray, pray, pray.
Dear Michael,
Greetings to you from Medjugorje,
I am writing this letter to you simply because, for a long time, I wanted to share some thoughts with you. I trust in your love for the Church, I believe in your love for truth, for the Gospel of Our Lord and I trust your deep desire and commitment for the well being of the world. For these reasons I believe that you may have so.................
chris
Yeah, I'm aware of that prophecy by the "Ecstatic of Tours" Mark W. I don't like citing anonymous or unsourced prophecies, as they are most often bogus or unreliable. It sounds very like the other prophecies concerning the "minor chastisement" though, where revolutions are foretold to break out in France and Italy before the appearance of the Great Monarch. Again, a lot of the prophecies concerning the minor chastisement are also suspect. I prefer to keep to Church approved prophecies, or prophecies from canonized saints that can be traced back to a reliable primary source.
Hi Emmett,
This is a great article and I am beginning to see the significance of sacred astronomy. The article though gives the date of 23rd September 2017 as the date for when Revelation 12 will be fulfilled, and this seems quite plausible, but I've also read elsewhere (namely from Antonio Yague), that the sign of Revelation 12 will occur on 13th April 2017. Just wondering if you have come across this and would like to know your views on it.
Thanks, Emmett. I wasn't able to find anything saying that it might or might not have been approved. Hence the question. Thanks again.
Hi Serena,
I'm sure Emmett can answer for himself, but I can give you one point of view.
Yague's foundation is based upon largely upon a connection to Garabandal. If you don't accept Garabandal, then his conclusions will be a bit off. His methodology is similar to that of the article above, but his conclusions are different because of the Garabandal factor. If you accept Garabandal, then his conclusions make a great deal of sense.
MarkW
"The Church will be without a Pope" -Prophecy of Tours
If Pope Benedict was forced to resign, the election of the next Pope, Francis, would be invalid?
Emmett,
what prevents you from accepting a future 'minor' chastisement?
Sam
Thanks Mark W I understand a bit better now.
Steve Calovich - I've seen some arguments in this line, that Francis was invalidly elected. But even BXVI himself has said, in at least one extensive interview, that his resignation and Francis' election were both valid.
Sam, I do not reject the prophecies of the minor chastisement altogether. It's just that I think that the wars and revolutions foretold to break out in France and Italy may belong to the events of the 20th century. There are some elements of the secrets of Fatima which suggest that the "minor chastisement" is related to the Second World War:
"When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father."
Emmett,
Wars as a rule could be defined as chastisements. The thought of WW3 could be another 'minor' one in re to world events. Seeing as Fatima is not quite finished just yet, I would posit that another minor one is due here before the promised era of peace.
sam
Emmett, the unknown light mentioned in your just-quoted passage re Fatima (When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father.) under normal circumstances would have been a beautiful sight to behold but as it anticipated dreaded events it was seen as a warning.
If I may apply/transpose this same quote to the ordered events of the (not yet approved) Garabandal messages then the first listed event, the awaited "Warning" "Mini-judgement" "Illumination of Consciences" could indeed be counted as a minor chastisement. I believe it will be far more terrifying, and it's aftermath even moreso, than the pre-war aurora. Do you consider this could be so?
Karen
Dear Chris,
I remembered that you had written this: "or a pole shift, the north pole could slide to the equator with rapidity.. " when it hit the news this weekend of the fossilized remains of a tropical rain forest was just found in the north of Norway, well into the Arctic circle. After I read that I did some research on polar shifts, and was pretty surprised to find out that there are very respected theories, almost taken in the scientific community as conventional wisdom, that the poles used to be quite far from where they are now, with the North Pole at one time being approximately in the middle of Hudson's Bay. Wow!
Likewise to the tropical forest found in Norway, once I looked further into the phenomenon that mammoths in Arctic Siberia have been found frozen with a tummy full of fresh buttercups, again showing that the Arctic hasn't always been cold and barren as it is now, and that the North Pole wasn't always located there. And the evidence isn't all just based on fossilized flora and fauna, but on the magnetic disposition in ferrous containing rocks, etc.
Very interesting stuff Chris, and from what I've read, the poles could shift, or even swap places in a very short period of days, causing the Earth to rotate in the exact opposite direction!! This would kind of fit into the vision Our Lady gave Sr. Lucia involving the polar axis of the Earth... and I can't help but wonder, if the North and South pole shifted and the Earth stopping spinning and then changed direction, so for us in N. America would have a sun rising in the West and setting in the East... could this be a potential physical explanation of the Three Days of Darkness?
Anyways, thank you Chris for mentioning this topic, it was very interesting to read about!
Pax Christi,
Jason
Hi Jason;
It seems that science has found several examples of this . When magma, volcanic eruptions spew material it has a magnetic property(there are a few magnetic elements --iron being one) and must be alligned to the magnetic north pole AT THAT TIME ) Now what makes this relevent is that rock has been found that is NOT pointing to todays magnetic north, I will try and find some reports that are informative,
But what might be of more interest, is the movement of magnetic poles is that the iron core, or the center of the planet could possible be pulled toward the side rather than center, causing a wobbling, a literal sliding or movement of the outer core which would cause many of the descriptions in the bible. Stars falling, land moving rising etc. scary stuff.
It is thought that this might be the reason that animals frozen, seemingly quite quickly, are foung with chewed cud still in their body.
The magnetic shift would be behind a physical shifting magnetic center causing different pull causing a shift in the outer core,
chris
Thirdsecret.net used the pattern found in the Second Secret of Fatima along with what has been learned over the years to reconstruct the Third Secret. I deleted my other post on the same topic, because I massaged it a little to make it read less like an encyclopedia. Any comments would be appreciated.
The Third Secret of Fatima Reconstructed:
You saw the ruin of the world. In order to prevent this, God wished to establish the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays. If the Holy Father had done so, many souls would have been saved. Because he did not, the devil will infiltrate the Church and mount the throne of Peter. There will be a Council in which Cardinal will oppose Cardinal and Bishop will oppose Bishop. The priests who revere me will be persecuted.
The Mass will be altered along with the teaching of the Church. The devil will sweep a third of the clergy into his service. The beast will overcome pastors and the flock will be abandoned and scattered. The wolves will drag many souls to hell. A diabolic wave will sweep over the world. Altars will be stripped and churches will be sacked. In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved by a faithful remnant.
A great war will chastise the world. Russia will overrun Europe. The Holy Father will be killed and the faithful martyred. Fire will fall from the sky. Millions will lose their lives from one hour to the next. The suffering will be worse than the Deluge. The survivors will envy the dead. When all seems lost, I will raise up a Holy Father who is dear to me and the world will be made new.
Jason,
You stated "would kind of fit into the vision Our Lady gave Sr. Lucia involving the polar axis of the Earth..."
Not familiar with this. Would have a source?
sam
Steve Calovich,
Your revision of the third secret of Fatima sounds eerily close to the approved apparitions of Akita, Japan given to Sr. Agnes Sasagawa who also experienced the stigmata. So much so that I'm wondering if this isn't what you were really quoting by mistake:
October 13, 1973
"In order that the world might know His anger, the Heavenly Father is preparing to inflict a great chastisement on all mankind. With my Son I have intervened so many times to appease the wrath of the Father. I have prevented the coming of calamities by offering Him the sufferings of the Son on the Cross, His Precious Blood, and beloved souls who console Him forming a cohort of victim souls. Prayer, penance and courageous sacrifices can soften the Father's anger. I desire this also from your community...that it love poverty, that it sanctify itself and pray in reparation for the ingratitude and outrages of so many men.
"As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only arms which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and priests."
"The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres...churches and altars sacked; the Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.
Remember, these are approved apparitions. The entire sequence of events about this appartion and the messages (there were a number of them) can be found in the link below:
https://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/AKITA.HTM
This is personally a definitive apparition for me and makes me believe that we will be experiencing a chastisement in the near future.
rose
unfortunately, i think the downing of the russian plane will be the start of russian and turkey
problems which will include the death of erdogan. I am affraid the fuse has bin lit!!
chris
If you recall, Pope Benedict XVI said that the Fatima and Akita prophecies were essentially the same. It wouldn't be surprising to find elements of Akita contained in the Third Secret. I think thirdsecret.net included quotes from Akita for that reason.
The fuse has definitely been lit if the surviving pilots were shot as they landed.
Dear Sam,
The angel's lance touching the axis of the Earth from the 1944 Tuy Apparition. I forget the exact wording, but you should be able to find it quickly at this site.
Jason
Mother Elena Leonardi “ An UNFORESEEN fire will descend over the whole earth, and a great part of humanity will be destroyed. This will be a time of despair for the impious: with shouts and satanic blasphemy, they will beg to be covered by the mountains, and they will try to seek refuge in caverns, but to no avail. Those who remain will find God's mercy in my power and protection, while all who refuse to repent of their sins will perish in a sea of fire!"
Blessed Elena Aiello : “See how Russia will burn!” Before my eyes there extended an immense field covered with flames and smoke, in which souls were submerged as if in a sea of fire.
“And all this fire,” concluded the Madonna, “is not that which will fall from the hands of men, but will be hurled DIRECTLY from the Angels (at the time of the great chastisement or purification that will come upon the earth). Therefore I ask prayers, penance and sacrifice, so I may act as Mediatrix for my Son in order to save souls.”
“Russia will march upon all the nation of Europe, particularly Italy, and will raise her flag over the dome of St Peter’s. Italy will be severely tried by a great revolution, and Rome will be purified in blood for its many sins, especially those of impurity! The flock is about to be dispersed and the Pope must suffer greatly!” Sister Elena Aiello 1959
Sr. Lucy said “The Third Secret will be revealed during a great war. ”
Not a pleasure future ahead. Fire is a common theme. As Akita is likened to Fatima and if the secret is to be revealed during a great war and fire being a part of this prophect revealing the incredible 'lateness' of the pope/Vatican in acting/succumbing to St. Margaret's warning from Our Lord.
sam
I dunno. I have a tough time seeing the Russo-Turkish issue this morning turning into anything larger in itself. However, Erdogan being a quasi-islamo-faciast doesn't help matters. The U.S. government is definitely on the wrong side. I see a lot of people here (Texas) wanting to change course in the Middle East, but Washington doesn't listen to the people anymore so the ship of state remains completely out of control. The Turk is financing ISIS through the purchase of their oil, so...who knows where this will end.
I just read that the U.S.-backed rebels shot one of the Russian pilots while he was still in the parachute coming down. The other was shot later; all to shouts of allahu akbar.
Is this the beginning of a wider war? I doubt it. But it is just one more straw on the camels back.
I went out and bought a new rifle this weekend, and a new rosary. Both seemed rather prudent, given the state of things these days.
Rather damning video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5g60o_O08U
They shot at both of them while still in the parachutes.
Sancte Michael, archangele, defendo nos in proelio...
Mark;
Just my take.........
If turkey wants to reestablish its significance as the the caliphate center, the emergence of
philisophical difference's between erdogan and putin will not end well for erdogan; now throw in that it ( turkey ) has the seat of pergoman and imagine the opportunity for a , THE , POWERFUL NEW SULLIMAN to emerge and unify the hate.
As i stated the fuse has been lit. (opinion) The difficulty with me is that when a definitive action has occured, i think that the domino's will begin immediately, but they must wait for the correct timing.
chris
Putin came out immediately with a series of statements which should send shockwaves across the NATO bloc and beyond. Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan has already been implicated in fueling much of the instability in Syria by allowing ISIS and other ‘moderate’ terrorists to cross over into Turkey, as well as using the US-led coalition in order to settle its own score against Kurdish militia.
Turkey’s brash move will almost certainly cause a freeze in diplomatic relations between Ankara and Moscow.
chris
Michael Savage just opined that Russia is the only powerful country that supports Christianity and opposes homosexuality, thus drawing Obama's ire.
Another thought;
It can be assumed that turkey is part of the alliance that goes against israel. There is still a nato participation which is what i think the fuse has been lit to end. I can forsee a very toxic message being given to erdogan to repay his helping the us go against russia. Also, it seems the prophet's gave signaled an alliance forming with the chinese--that is chinese and turkish --moslum--forces. I am watching to see if this alliance shows it face and to what causes it.
All this to save the dollars power. I hate this charade.
chris
Hi all,
This is a fairly wide departure from what's currently being discuss, but as the comments section here seems to have almsot the nature of a forum I thought hopefully it would be OK.
I've been reading a lot of older blog posts and have noticed that the spectre of Freemasonry is brought up fairly often in the comments section, so I thought I'd share my experience with them that I found very off-putting to put in mildly.
In 1994 I convocated with a B.Admin in Finance with a speciaty in portfolio analysis, but Canada at the time was in a pretty bad recession so it wasn't especially easy to find a job. Though I didn't have much interest in banking, I got a job at the Bank of Montreal at the second busiest branch in Canada for training in branch management with assurances that after about a year of training I'd be transferred to a small branch out in the boonies and go from there.
Everything was going great for my first year there; I completed all the in-company training available on my own time, moved through the positions of teller, customer service rep, and loans officer, and received a professional designation through the Institute of Canadian Bankers, so everything was going to plan, but that changed in short order.
It started when I was invited for a luncheon at the local Freemason hall, which I went to under the aspices of doing some networking. I didn't know anything at all about Freemasons, other than having a cousin who was very prejudiced against Catholics who was a Mason as well as an Orangeman, but I didn't know if the two were related.
After the initial luncheon, I found out quickly that everyone at entire branch was either a Mason or a member of the Order of the Eastern Star if they were women, and one of the tellers who was 18 was in Job's Daughters. And when I say everyone, I mean every single one of them, a staff of around 30 people, from the newest teller to the District Manager, not one person that worked there other than me wasn't a member of a Masonic-related group.
I don't know what to think about the conspiracy theories around Freemasonry, but this really freaked me out, it was just so strange. I kept getting invitations to other Masonic luncheons and suppers, but kept finding excuses to not go, especially when I told my mother in passing what was going on and she let me know that Catholics are completely prohibitted from being involved with Masonry, something I was glad to find out considering the next thing that happened.
I was at my dentist, a Filipino man whose daughter I grew up going to school with, very strong Catholic family, etc., when out of nowhere, he started talking to me about Freemasonry! He asked me why I wasn't interested in attending any events, and without me even bringing it up, he started saying that the Church prohibition against being involved with that group didn't exist anymore, that he was a member of both the Knights of Columbus and a Master Mason and that the Church is fine with that. I expressed to him my surprise, and more than a little annoyance, that he had any idea of what I had or hadn't been invited to, and felt like my privacy had been more than a little invaded. I was frankly pretty pissed off. I was just there for a check-up and cleaning, so I didn't storm out or anything, but was not happy.
cont...
cont...
I called my mom that evening and asked her if the Church had changed it's stance on Catholics becoming Masons, not that I was at all interested after the discussion with my dentist, but just wanted to see what the truth of things was. She told me absolutely not, the Church's stance hadn't changed at all, and that although the prohibition had been issued a long time ago, it was still fully in effect.
The next time I was invited to an event it was by our head honcho, Doug, the District Manager, and I brought up that I was Catholic so wasn't free to get involved with the organization, and he brought up, Oh, I thought Dr. C****nan, I'll leave my dentist's surname out, spoke to you about that, that it's allowed by your Church now. I was again angry that my dentist had obviously talked to Doug, or someone else that had talked to Doug, about our discussion.
I was starting to feel like Mia Farrow in Rosemary's Baby, lol, bad example I guess, but the whole thing made me very uneasy and I was just disturbed by the subtle, or maybe not-so-subtle message, that if you want to work here, being a Mason goes part-in-parcel with that. I told Doug flat-out that I wasn't interested at all, period. He said that was fine, that it was just a great fraternal organization, and good for making contacts to bring in new clients as a loans officer, etc., but he made it sound like it wasn't a big deal.
Not 3 days later I was told I was being transferred to a tiny branch, and I mean *tiny* across town, which had only 4 employees in total including the manager, and I was busted down to customer service rep. It wasn't a decrease in salary, but the message seemed pretty clear. I also inexplicably started to have the manager ride me hard on every single thing I did, it seemed like she was angry with all my work, yet I was still doing a great job in my estimation. It seemed pretty clear to me what was happening, and after a month and a half of that I resigned my position and soon after went to work for Crown Life Insurance Company in a nearby city, Regina.
I got the job through a friend of my dad's that he used to work with who was now a VP at the life insurance company, and he let me know after I was hired that when the HR department had called the BoM for a reference that the Assistant Branch Manager at the bigger branch that I worked at longer didn't have anything at all good to say about my job performance. I was stunned, and again, pretty angry, because I put in hundreds of unpaid hours for the just under 2 years that I worked there both in training and just staying late to help out at the end of the day, especially around harvest-time when we got extremely busy there.
Needless to say, I've been more than wary about anything to do with Masonry every since. I have read since that some organizations in the UK were heavily involved/infiltrated by Masonic organizations, like the London Met. Police Service in the late 19th and early 20th century, but to come up against this in the Canadian prairies in the mid-1990s was a real shocker!
Has anyone else had any experience similar to mine? I'm just curious if it was a kind of strange, but isolated, occurence, or if this is a fairly wide-spread thing in certain sectors on industries?
Thanks for reading,
Jason R.
Another area i wonder about are the predictions of a return of a separated germany . The books about prophecy include an east and west germany. i am wondering if this will be related to the ongoing immigration troubles happening now.
chris
That's an interesting observation Chris. My cousin's son just got back from a year in Germany, much of it in the former GDR because we have a lot of family there (my grandmother, dad, 2 aunts, and uncle escaped to the West in 1948 but a lot of family was left behind).
When I talked to him about the attitude in the former GDR about the vehement opposition to immigration, he said the average person there has a deep seated resentment towards immigrants, including the descentdents of the massive amount of Turkish people that the Federal Republic enticed to emigrate there in the 1970s when they were experienced a labour crunch. There's a sense among the majority of the people there that they never really *have* joined West Germany in anything more than name, as they still have an underdeveloped infrastructure, an economy not based on the high-precision manufacturing of the West, etc.
Culturally as well, theirs is a much more paranoid society after the revelations of the percentage of people that were under the employment of the Stasi, and a lot of the rehabilitation and excising of the Prussian militarism from German culture just never took place in the GDR nor since reunification; antitotalitarism, whether against the Soviet or Nazi variety just never took place, and though all of Germany it can be argued has lost the Gospel, the former GDR is especially an atheistic culture, rivaled probsbly only be the Czech Republic.
So, yeah, I think a political separation, especially after the destruction of the USA and the current Western economic system that would go down with the destruction of America could totally take place. Even if a surprise invasion of Western Europe took place, many former East Germans could possibly welcome the Russians. I know that kind of goes against the convential wisdom of the elation of Easterners when the Berlin Wall fell, but there is widespread disillusionment because the expectations of the future just haven't been met, just as in Russia polls have shown a majority of Russians would support a return to a Communist system as oligarchs and plutocrats have been almost the exclusive beneficiaries of the crony capitalism that replaced the Soviet system.
Jason R.
p.s. A funny anecdote, or maybe more disturbing than funny, but definitely one that reflected the tenacity and intimidation of the system in the GDR; when my father, livinng in Wolseley, SK, Canada, a tiny prarire town, came of draft age in the 1960s, a letter advising him of his compulsary military service in the Nationale Volksarmee, the NVA, found it's way to him. That their government would take the time to see that a letter was sent to him just as a tactic of intimidation, the postmark indicated it was sent by someone in Celle, Lower Saxony, part of West Germany so they went to some amount of toruble, shows how very methodical they were in making people who had defected as miserable or frightened as they possible could, even decades after they had escaped!
The lawyer who handled my Mom and Dad's estate was a lieutenant Governor in a Midwestern U.S. state before he settled down in the town I grew up in. His handling of the estate divided my family and eight years on many in the family are barely on speaking terms. I just happened to see this lawyer's obituary earlier this year. He had a Masonic ceremony for his funeral because he was a higher up in the 'organization.' I was shocked to learn that my Mom and Dad had this man settle their estate but the sad outcome of his 'work' makes perfect sense now. Thanks be to God that your mom warned you, Jason R.
Yes, I feel very fortunate, and am embarassed at my naivete, but I was only 24 and admittedly not very well versed on a lot of things I should have been regarding my faith, but at least I knew enough to check with my resident expert, me Ma, haha! And, yes, it's surprising to say the least how many people are deeply involved with Masonry, but not so that if it's an organization set up in opposition to Christ that bad fruits would flow from it's member, especially the ones most serious about it.
p.s. The thing that really set my radar buzzing is the recruitment efforts seemed very over the top for a mere fraternal organization, and more akin to somethng closer to a cult-type of thing.
Crazy story Jason! Wow. I haven't heard a lot of insider info on masonry. I didn't realize it would be that big of a deal that a whole office of 30 people would all be in it together, talk to your dentist about it, etc. Crazy. Sounds like a cult.
Have you heard the talks of John Salza? He was very involved in masonry before becoming a catholic. You might find it interesting if you haven't heard him before. You can find him on youtube. He's also written numerous books, but I haven't read any yet.
What is putin having for thanksgiving dinner??
roast turkey !
chris
Happy Thanksgiving everyone, whether you're in the U.S. or not.
One thing I'm thankful for is this place that Emmett has created, and his writings. Here we can get a lot of good information and discuss things without a lot of the rancor that exists elsewhere.
Mark W
This article was published day before yesterday in the UK Daily Telegraph, page two headline:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12010573/Was-Titanic-inquiry-scuppered-by-the-Freemasons.html
Lately there have been many demystifying "glastnost-type" articles in which a spokesman for Freemasonry says they are merely social organization, a networking opportunity that has some 18th century symbolic rituals that "really don't mean anything."
["Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. . . "]
--Adrian Johnson
ominous !!
Wednesday, November 25, 2015
November message of Our Lady to Marija
......................Peace is in danger...................................
chris
Thank you! Yes! There is all the disobedience to the bishops by the Franciscans, the apparition telling the seers to do so, pseudomystics coming out off there with apparition claims that have been disapproved, and Ivan's Mary on demand your, etc. God may have brought some good out of the hysteria in conversions, but know Satan can make something holy-like happen, such as rosaries becoming hold, with a compromising error thrown in. No apparitions have the weight of public revelation, anyway, but there are signs of a likely one and Medjugorje lacks a critical number of them.
Chris,
Peace is in danger? Is this a new revelation?
sam
psieve2,
Medj. is in search of validity by public approval. Bypass normal channels and go for the world's popular opinion.
sam
Sam
Yes, the message from our Lady - November 25 2015, in Medjugorje is very interesting and specific. "Peace is in danger." -- her wording clearly portends something major is possible in the near future -- war? Peace is always in danger -- since 9/11 -- wars all over the world, bombings all over the world -- so for her to say it at this time is specific to something possibly coming. She is trying to help us avert this -- which is why in the first sentence of the message she asks that we pray for her intentions --- so that she may gather all of our prayers and intercede for us before God to help us avert the danger that is possibly coming. Time will tell. It is important I think to remember her words from August as well, where she said to us "you are in a moment of trial".
United in prayer
Michael Patrick
Sam
Good morning !!
If in fact medjugorje is authentic, and i believe it is, for the Lady from heaven to give a message that risks the response from you and your ilk , i suggest you might reconsider the lateness of the hour and perhaps put extra rosary's in your picnic basket, as the magnitude of what is coming might be something that will make you a believer as well.
chris
Good afternoon to you Chris!!
My ilk would like to say that it doesn't take an apparition to tell me that peace is in danger. Pretty much it's in all forms of media nowadays. Oh heck, I think 'even' the Fatima messages were dire enough to suggest peace to be in danger. Our Lady never smiled once during Fatima , unlike Medj. Did the world get better?
Yours truly,
sam
Chris
Very funny. A good take. I still do not understand the vitriol from people re: Medj. If its not real then that will all play out. If it IS real, then we have a major major storm coming. And regardless of the approaching storm -- things are a mess in our world and in most people's lives we have people we know who are addicted to drugs or alcohol or porn etc. People who are walking around like zombies looking for the next material fix and being silent as (in America) we are selling baby parts for profit! and the "legal" killing of the unborn goes on with people shrugging and then checking their phones looking for the time for the new episodes of the Bachelorette. Can anyone seriously wonder why our Mother would be with us in such a way in these days of ours.
Yes, time will tell. And her message from 2 days ago in Medj. I think is very important and telling.
United in prayer!
Michael Patrick
Funny that she said "peace is in danger" AFTER the attacks in Paris and the downed Russian plane, rather than before the events. Contrast that with Fatima, where Mary gave specific warnings BEFORE the events occurred.
KP,
Yes, next time will be don't invest in the stock market, the day after the world's economy collapses.
I don't understand pro medj. devotees putting so much energy into this unapproved 'whatever' and then say they'll abide by the church's decision, when the two local ordinaries there have already made their pronouncements.
Michael Patrick, " If its not real then that will all play out. If it IS real, then we have a major major storm coming."
Either way, a major storm coming our way no matter what. I don't really need a 'vision' to tell me this today. It's being played out now.
I recall 20 years ago , following a seer by the name of john leary. He's still going strong today with his brand of 'catholic visions' and not with the approval of his diocese. But he still has a following. It didn't take long to figure out this guy's just reading material from the internet and putting his own flavor on the events.
My point is not to go around chasing visions that are unapproved.
sam
KP - Well said. I was going to respond with something similar, but you beat me to it.
It doesn't take much looking to see that a major storm is coming, and you can look in a variety of places.
Economics - the world is tipping into a deflationary recession. A lot of people see a bit potential for a full blown economic collapse unlike anything we've seen in human history before. Robert Kiyosaki even outright says that it will get so bad that cannibalism is inevitable - just from the economic collapse alone.
Tectonic - I follow a guy on youtube that does earthquake predictions. I don't think he's terribly accurate in his future forecasts, but his current events summary suggests that there are major seismic events taking place all over the world right now. Oklahoma is the most seismically active place on earth now (and I work for an oil company, and the fracking operations aren't doing so much since the price dropped below $60/bbl). The place that seems least active is, oddly enough, the area around Cumbre Vieja.
Spiritual - The Synod where bishops were against bishops, and cardinals were against cardinals. All we need now is for priests who venerate Mary to be scorned and opposed by their confrers, and we have all the conditions described in Akita. And then we have all the other things pointing to 2017.
Mark;
May i add militarily. I think it is not unreasonable to guess that american boots are in or will SOON be in turkey . The setup for turkey to regurgitate its interest in nato participation is happening right before our eyes. And somehow the destruction of damascus could be a part of our Lady's warning. I fear we might experience nuclear explosions in this timetable. And how far this envelopes the whole middle east and particularily israel is the issue. I think israel will be left no option but to participate and predictions about egypt will be realised.
We've read about the fatima if not..... warnings and medjugorje's pleading for peace. I fear we might be the Church in Laodicea.
chris
Gentlemen,
Things are happening at break neck speed right now. From Climate Gate to Catholic migrant relief, world globalization is nearly at hand. Cultures and people's will perish just as mentioned in Fatima. Not just Middle Eastern people as well. We are witnessing the Gospel vs Anti-Gospel prediction mentioned by St. JP 2. The sun is setting on the whole world as described by the Great mind of BenedictXVI. This is going to be one 'hell' of a ride. Yet, despite the troubles that will pass I feel a certain sense of peace. This is God's mercy in action and WE all need it. A quasi corrupt church and fraudulent goverents in all forms being accepted as good. God is truly hearing the cries of the poor.
I've today been reading about the great Western Schism after Avignon and the antipopes that followed after Gregory XI moved the papacy back to Rome. It's interesting that it was referred to at the time, or shortly after, as The Babylonian Captivity of the Church, and that the timeframe was comparable in length to the Babylonian Captivity of the Jewish people.
I'm re-reading Unveiling the Apocalypse again, and something that is impressing itself upon me more this time is the cyclical nature of prophecy, that many Old Testament prophecy that was already fulfilled was fulfilled again a second time during the New Testament and even again, subsequently, and that Jesus Himself pointed this out in the Gospels.
Emmett, with that in mind, I'm wondering if you think the Western Schism might be a precusor of a modern-day Schism if that does happen as some have predicted, in its nature and even length of time? Reading about the state of the Papacy when it was in Avignon sure reminds me of the Church in Germany right now especially, and Pope Francis' call to the Church to re-embrace the poverty that is it's true nature makes me wonder if it might lead to a similar split, and even antipopes as it did when the Papacy moved back to Rome and back to a more spiritually secure state?
EDIT: Specifically, Urban V really reminds me of Pope Francis in his outlook and spirituality, as well as starting to fall into the role of a peacemaker in a world marching toward a major war. He also came as close as any Pope ever did at healing the East-West Schism, which I have a feeling Pope Francis may do as well, if not even succeed where Urban V didn't quite.
I don't think there will be a schism any time soon Jason. In fact according to Catholic prophecy the Church must become one before the appearance of the Antichrist:
"I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd."
(John 10:16)
I think the establishment of Church unity is the next big prophetic event that is set to happen. There might be a schism during the reign of the Antichrist and the Great Apostasy though. I agree with you about the cyclical nature of time, and that history is destined to repeat itself.
EDIT: Thanks for your repsonse Emmmett, I appreciate your insight a lot. I've been reading a lot also about the period of Late Antiquity and the societal collapse that followed Adrianople and the death of Emporer Valens, and see some potential parallels in our present situation, too. St. Ambrose proclaimed after the battle that it was the end of the world, and in a fairly real way it was as far as the descent into barbarism and decline of civilization.
I don't think most people think it could happen today; I know it doesn't fit with prophecy as well, but I found it interesting with the new colbalt encased nuclear torpedo the Russians "accidentally" leaked is noted as being able to create a mega-tsunami as well, which might be its main mechanism of action even:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34797252
After reading so much about how the catastophic flooding of coastal areas figures into the minor chastisement this news article really caught my eye a couple of weeks ago!
Mark W, KP, Sam
My point was that usually Mary does not speak that way in Medjugorje. Ever. So for her to say the words "peace is in danger" had nothing to do with the fact that we had paris attacks and Russia and Turkey went at each other. Case in point - after 9/11 Mary did not say anything like that. Which of course, for those who think that Medj is fake -it would have been a perfect time for the visionaries to cash in on the events and make something up. There's always major problems, wars, suicide bombings etc. and she doesn't say a sentence like that. She calls us to pray for peace - but doesn't say words that blatantly portend much greater problems. For those of you who think Medj is fake -- then you can ignore it -- I'm sure you're already praying a great deal everyday.
For those of us who believe its real -- we don't "need" it - its just a nice feeling to know that she is with us in a special way. I choose to believe. Everyone is free not to.
And Sam, I know I said it before, but I'll explain again. The local ordinaries thoughts on Medj have no weight. It was taken away from them by now Pope Emeritus Benedict, when he was a Cardinal. And from 2010 to 2014 the Vatican studied Medjugojre. Why would they do this if the local ordinaries pronouncements from the 80's meant anything. They wouldn't. Because they don't. We will soon find out what Pope Francis says based on the study that was done by Rome itself.
It's also not fair to say that those who believe in Medj will follow the Church's decision in a way that obviously shows you think they won't. Fairly judgemental. If you think people who follow Medj are lost then please pray for us.
And John Leary as a "visionary" is as far from the strength and the fruits of Medjugorje as the sun is from the moon. To put them both in the same basket is laughable.
United in prayer
Michael Patrick
May i present anotherexample of why the people in the us should not believe most of what is presented to them as truth on their night time news.
it is called propaganda.
see.............http://beforeitsnews.com/9-11-and-ground-zero/2015/11/incontrovertible-new-911-documentary-by-tony-rooke-2441552.html
chris
one last bit of info--------------- to make you go hmmmmmmmmmm is to do some homework and learn why it is impossible for a 747 type plane to travel 500+ mph at an elevation and air density in the 1500 2000 ft altitude range. The more you learn the more people will look at you sideways and talk to you less.
chris
"Pilots for 9/11 truth" will tell us the full story. We just have to buy their DVD's.
huh.
When our eyes cannot be believed, there is always a DVD to buy on the internet to tell us what we really saw.
Hi Michael Patrick-
Extraordinary interventions from heaven are always scandalous and near-impossible to believe, aren't they. That has always been the case, from Noah to Moses, the escape from Egypt to the scandal at the base of the mountain while the law was being given. From the disciples who departed Jesus because it was "unreasonable, insane and nobody speaks that way" during his Bread of Life discourse. Men and women are always scandalized by heaven, that is why being "born again" with the "heart of a child" is required - says God.
I will bet 90% of the readers of this blog would have laughed and mocked Jesus, and left him, when he said "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood." I may have been among them.
These days Padre Pio is revered. We even put things in his mouth we *want* to believe (three days darkness, etc.) But if you read his letters, you will see that his very own fellow priests thought he was nuts. They had audio devices set up in his room, taped under his bed, to prove him wrong. Incredible - his own confreres who lived with him every day mocked him - even how he combed his hair, that he was vain, etc. But we would have never done that, right?
Our Lord tells us the last days will continue to be that way. I think we have this clean idea of the believers and unbelievers, those of us "in the know" vs. all the unbelievers. But Our Lord clearly warns the believers to guard their hearts, because they will be tested - severely.
One of the alleged messages from Medjugorje on 2/17/1984 says:
"My children, pray! The world has been drawn into a great whirlpool. It does not know what it is doing. It does not realize in what sense it is sinking. It needs your prayers so that I can pull it out of this danger."
If one of the hundreds of internet prophets said "The world has been drawn into a great whirlpool. It does not know what it is doing. It does not realize in what sense it is sinking." people would run to that blogger and say "yes! yes! Tell us more, O guru!" But because this is Medjugorje, it is scoffing, laughter, mockery.
But we as people don't really know what we do so we have to be gentle with ourselves and others.
"They will not be persuaded, even if someone were to rise from the dead." (Luke 16.31). This means that our human hearts are very dangerous things, very quick to harden, like cement. Jesus warned us about it often.
It takes great humility and a lot of effort to keep our hearts little, pure, humble. The internet lets strangers be nasty to one another, even devout Catholics. It's a real epidemic.
"You will be held accountable for every careless word you speak, in the day of judgment." (Matthew 12.36)
The ones who really need warned are the ones who are being so reckless and nasty with their speech. But "pearls before swine," they trample our admonitions under foot and continue to gore others. We've said our part, and now try to hold our peace.
And now people are anti-Medjugorje because Mary *smiles?* Wow (lol). She has often smiled in past approved apparitions. And said and done many more "odd" things than at Medjugorje. A one hour study of past approved apparitions and what Mary said and did may help calm down anxious nerves around here. Vatican-approved Banneux is a nice start, where Mary *smiled* (gasp!) and the visionary actually went on and got married (gasp!)
Mark L.
"747 type plane to travel 500+ mph at an elevation and air density in the 1500 2000 ft altitude range"
I don't mean to argue, and I wouldn't put anything past any government when it comes to forcing its will, but I'm pretty confident that a 747 could fly that fast, and actually much faster, after a rapid descent... they can pick up a lot of speed just letting gravity do its work, and the structural integrity wouldn't be compromised as in it wouldn't break up or lose its regular flight characteristics.
I'm no pilot, but I've played flight simulators since the 80s and have a subscription to Janes and used to read Aviation Monthly when I was bored in the periodicals at univeristy. I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, and am not questioning the veracity of anything else, but this one statement I don't think is accurate.
After i posted i knew i made a mistake. Several pilot explain the immposibility of some of the reported actions by 9/11 planes. I thought the same till i saw the interviews and was shown that they were by aircraft engineers.
My point was we are still being led by the nose and people believe everything that comes out of that little black box. people come to work so proud that they can repeat last nights news.
I am sad that people still believe oswald did it and the golf of tonkin was real and yes we can.
most people never even watch the videos that people risk the jobs and reputations to make.
building 7 was never hit in fact it was structurally enhanced and was the safe building in case of any thing out of the ordinary.
and a plane hit the pentagon
ps i have land for sale---what a deal-
chris
this was not pressurized water cutting through steel.....................
Taken from the sworn affidavit:
‘Such crashes did not occur because they are physically impossible as depicted, for the following reasons: in the case of UAL 175 going into the south tower, a real Boeing 767 would have begun ‘telescoping’ when the nose hit the 14 inch steel columns which are 39 inches on center.
‘The vertical and horizontal tail would have instantaneously separated from the aircraft, hit the steel box columns and fallen to the ground.
‘The engines when impacting the steel columns would have maintained their general shape and either fallen to the ground or been recovered in the debris of the collapsed building.
‘No Boeing 767 could attain a speed of 540 mph at 1000 feet above sea level ‘parasite drag doubles with velocity’ and ‘parasite power’ cubes with velocity.
The fan portion of the engine is not designed to accept the volume of dense air at that altitude and speed.
The piece of alleged external fuselage containing 3 or 4 window cutouts is inconsistent with an airplane that hit 14 inch steel box columns, placed at over 500 mph. It would have crumpled.
No significant part of the Boeing 767 or engine could have penetrated the 14 inch steel columns and 37 feet beyond the massive core of the tower without part of it falling to the ground.
‘The debris of the collapse should have contained massive sections of the Boeing 767, including 3 engine cores weighing approximately 9000 pounds apiece which could not have been hidden. Yet there is no evidence of any of these massive structural components from either 767 at the WTC. Such complete disappearance of 767s is impossible.
baaaaa. baaaaaaaaaa WE ARE SHEEP
Mark L, stating that people have a weak faith because they doubt medjugorje is a tad ridiculous. For all you know pope francis doesn't believe in medjugorje. After all, he said that Mary doesn't send daily messages. Perhaps he's not catholic enough to accept medjugorje?
The reason I don't believe in medjugorje is because the "visionaries" were proven false. She's also given no prophecies that are verifiable after 30+ years. Quite different than Fatima, Akita, Quito, LA Salette, etc.
And then there is the visionary flinching while in a state of ecstasy, trying to catch baby jesus because the blessed Virgin Mary was dropping Him.
We don't doubt because we lack faith. We doubt because the evidence points to "no."
Yes, there may be good fruits and miracles, but the church even recognizes that God can bear good works and miracles through heretical religions. If God can bear good works and miracles through protestants and muslims, certainly he can do the same through this little town.
"‘No Boeing 767 could attain a speed of 540 mph at 1000 feet above sea level ‘parasite drag doubles with velocity’ and ‘parasite power’ cubes with velocity."
No, not in level flight, but again, in a rapid descent from a much higher altitute it could attain and maintain speeds far in excess of 540 mph.
Think of the parallel of an economy car with a 1.8L engine. It's top speed on a level straight-away is, say, 160 kph. Now, take this car to the top of a very steep hill, and drive it down the hill, or even let it coast down. If the hill is high enough, the car could reach far beyond the speeds it could attain on level ground i.e. 200+ kph.
I'm not a sheep, I just understand aeronautics and basic physics; this isn't rocket surgery. ;)
And, again, I'm not attacking your hypothesis in general, but this factoid about a 757/767 not being able to attain said speed just isn't at all credible. No need to get hostile. :)
...cont
Another good example for purposes of illustration is that of the P-47 Thunderbolt aka "The Jug" used in the Second World War, a regular propeller-driven airplane.
It wasn't as fast as some of it's contemporaries in level flight, but had an excellent airframe for deep dives, routinely reaching speeds in excess of 550 mph. A common tactic was to slowly climb to a relatively high altitude, and then engage in a rapid descent to intercept their opponents, something that the AVG "Flying Tigers" did as well in China when facing faster and more nimble Japanese fighter aircraft. British and Commonwealth Hurricanes used the same tactics when fighting against the then faster Me-109s.
All that speed gained during the deep dive didn't by any means immediately dissipate for the aircraft once it reached it's fighting elevation and levelled off, just as it wouldn't for a 747 or 757, due to something called *momentum*, which allowed it to turn inside any German aircraft, and keep up with and even overtake even jet aircraft such as the Me-262.
In fact, there is quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that the P-47 even reached speeds in excess of 767 MPH when in deep dives chasing Me-262s, with the accompanying sonic boom when breeching the sound barrier.
So what does this example tell us? When being able to pick up and also maintain over time much faster speeds than an aircraft could in level flight at low altitudes after a rapid descent and the accompanying momentum generated, the absolute velocity is limited by the robustness of the aircraft's structure more than anything else, and the airframes of both 747s and 757s are more than robust enough to reach and maintain speeds in excess of what you are claiming in your post. Now, if these facts makes me a sheep, then "Baahhhhhhhhh".
My apology
my post was not meant to convey hostility. The post does not belong here, and i am sorry for posting it. I have to go watch ww2 movies and see how many planes went through ships hulls.
chris
Chris - Stop with the "Baahhh" crap. I'll give you one really simple reason why I don't buy the 9/11 conspiracy theories.
I was in the service here in the U.S. (Given that you're using metric measurements, I assume that you are not in the U.S.). I don't believe for one moment that the government of the United States is competent enough to pull off such a massive undertaking. And then they work an equally massive cover-up and get away with that as well? You've never really dealt directly with the government of this country, have you? When you get right down to the nitty-gritty, the United States government is not competent to buy a hammer from a hardware store.
Everything wrong with this country stems from government intervention of some kind. Nixon got involved with the healthcare system in the 70's, and look where it got us today - the best healthcare system on the planet that no mere mortal can afford. The government decided to save Long-Term Capital Management in 98, and now we have a centrally planned economy. The only thing the government does well is blow stuff up, and then you have a 25% chance that you'll hit the wrong target (which will undoubtedly be an orphanage or a hospital full of orphans or a bus load of orphans and nuns singing Christmas carols).
And yes, I know about Operation Northwoods, and the Building 7 free-fall rate, and the supposed aerodynamic impossibilities of aircraft flying at certain speeds. Bumblebees aren't aerodynamically stable either. Kennedy refused to go along with Northwoods because it was nuts.
But please, stop with denigrating people for not agreeing with your theories. Some people writing on 9/11 conspiracy theories sound like Gnostics, with secret information that only an idiot would deny. Rubbish!
"Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected." Occam's Razor. How many assumptions are necessary to make the conspiracy theories work? Lots and lots and lots.
Sorry. I don't mean to be harsh either. But this "baahhhh" stuff gets old.
Mark,
Well written. DON'T WORRY I'm a big boy; i can absorb a different opinion. I however do not intentionally mean to denegrate anyone. So I am sorry to anyone who has read them and get that intent!! I wish my words didn't read that way!!
I enjoy and want to hear different ideas. And you are allowed to be part of the herd. (p.s. i agree that the "government" could not possible have enough gears to allign to pull this off.)
The answer then remains outside of the public. It must be in the protected access denied to the american until they demand it. Search for it. I feel as if this will come AFTER the time something could have been done by legally. Perhaps after an economic foot steps on the larger public domain which relies on the government. Perhaps when they find out there is no gold in fort knox. Perhaps when a "press" is again free and protected by the first amendment.
Perhaps when the people who have done this and other things are so in power that they are not even afraid to come out and declare who they are. And then they will say it was easy. you are so stupid!!
chris
Again may i say that i am truly looking to find the holy escape route and mean no animas to anyone- so i pre say a mea culpa - for any ill expressed idea.
now may i add to the 911 pilots --which seemed to get a nice raspberry a few responses ago--
maybe that has something to do with things as propaganda has many benefactors.
May i also add some free info --just follow the crumbs on the left when opened
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/
and
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/10/08/over-2200-architects-engineers-crush-the-official-911-commission-report/
and
http://www.ae911truth.org/gallery/evidence.html
All of you know how to seach --you just dont want to know.
chris
and
Licensed clinical psychologist Robert Hopper, Ph.D., explains:
“9/11 Truth challenges some of our most fundamental beliefs about our government and about our country. When beliefs are challenged or when two beliefs are inconsistent, cognitive dissonance is created. 9/11 Truth challenges [our] beliefs that our country protects and keeps us safe and that America is the ‘good guy.’
When this happens, fear and anxiety are created. In response, our psychological defenses kick in [to] protect us from these emotions. Denial, which is probably the most primitive psychological defense, is the one most likely to kick in when our beliefs are challenged.
chris
I'm reluctant to get involved in this discussion because I really don't understand all the intricacies around the theories that the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated by the Bush government.
BUT, one thing has always made me wonder, if these claims were true, with the large amount of people that would have to have been in on the conspiracy, then why when no WMDs were found in Iraq would the Bush government just say that they had and faked it. I don't know the reaction in America, but when no WMDs emerged, here in Canada, and in many other countries around the world I'd guess, this made the United States look like an agressor nation who invaded a sovereign country on a completely false pretext, completely losing the high moral ground that America so long had enjoyed in international affairs.
If they could pull off a 9/11 black-op, surely burying a view storage tanks full of nerve gas or anthrax out in the desert and having a Marine recce unit stumble across them shouldn't have been outside of Cheney and Co.'s abilities, should've it? The two incidents, a 9/11 false flag operation and the egg left on the Bush government's face for finding no WMDs in Iraq... it just doesn't add up for me.
That being said, I do believe that people in high office are capable of directing their intelligence services of doing very bad things, up to and including killing their own citizens to achieve a political goal e.g. Bologna train-station bombing by Gladio, but in this case, why yes to 9/11 black-op, and then no to WMD setup? The two seem very hard for me to reconcile regardless of any strange physical evidence, etc., around the 9/11 events.
How did this get side tracked from Fatima to 9/11?
I think maybe someone needs to codify something similar to "Godwin's Law" that states that the increasing length of any discussion over the Internet is directly proportional to the chance that said discussion will end up with the parties involved engaging in debate about 9/11 conspiracy theories, haha.
With one of my cousins, any conversation at all more than ~5 minutes long seems to turn into a discussion of 9/11. The only way to avoid it is to take him to a Karaoke bar. I'm not implying that anyone here is, but with my cousin at least it is almost like an all-pervading obsession that he just can't stop thinking about or talking about almost exclusively as a topic of conversation.
On the note of cognitive dissonance, it could be argued that the possibility of a handful of highly-motivated and amoral men could have without much outside help have brought about so much destruction on 9/11 that it caused a cognitive dissonance due to the abject fear that accepting that fact could elicit. Thus, as a way of dealing with the trauma of the event, and the fact that such ordinary people could wreak such havoc, some people cannot accept this and need to find alternate theories to explain how the events unfolded, basically being in denial due to said cognitive dissonance.
I found it kind of funny that the quote posted from Robert Hopper, Ph.D, is a pretty good potential explanation for the whole phenomena of the "truther" movement itself!
What is up with the host bleeding in utah. Now i read that it is a yeast reaction.
aNY ONE?
CHRIS
Chris,
It's a yeast reaction. We had the same thing happen here in Dallas a few years back. The yeast turn blood red. That's one of the things they tested for, both here and in Utah. The host was somehow contaminated with yeast, either in the church or during manufacture.
They tested the Host in Lanciano too. But it came back as human blood, type AB-.
It's a simple way to start the testing process.
MarkW
thanks !!
chris
“How did this get side tracked from Fatima to 9/11?”
You have to think sideways.
By way of full disclosure: I am an American, and a Texan, a conservative (not a Neo-Con), and an American Exceptionalist. (To some, this is the worst possible combination.)
It has to do with the United States turning away from God. As Jonathan Cahn has said, 9/11 was a reaction, not an action; a moment of warning about a path down which we have progressed since 1960 (or thereabouts…the dates are open to discussion).
Look at that quote from Robert Hooper again (above from 14:17 on 1 December). Now, rather than looking at it from a short-term 9/11 truther point of view, look at it from a long-term religious point of view. The cognitive dissonance stems from a fundamental break in how my country functions. In the 1960’s this was a very Christian country, now it’s difficult to even talk about religion within my own family, much less in public. The majority of voters ruled, now the majority of the Supreme Court rules and the administration administers by presidential order as often as not. Congress was the “house of the people”. Now it’s largely an echo chamber of competing ideologies. Much of this goes hand-in-hand with our societal abandonment of God. We have, in some very real ways, become Samaria, and that didn’t ultimately end well for the Samarians – though they survived, the Samarians lost the graces that God bestowed upon the northern tribes.
One thing you have to give the ancient Jews is that, when they screwed up, the looked in the mirror first. In modern America, we look in the mirror last. I think that’s where a lot of the truther stuff comes from with regards to 9/11. We look outwardly for someone to blame for our misfortunes, rather than looking inwardly at our own abandonment of God as the reason for our misfortune.
The cognitive dissonance is palpable for some of us; or the majority really, though some don’t realize what they’re feeling. When I was a kid, and even when I was in the service, we were a different country and a different people: we fought our wars in accordance with the Geneva Conventions, we didn’t torture prisoners, we didn’t spy on allies, the Constitution meant something, politicians were crooked but not too crooked, police officers were universally good guys, jobs meant living wages even if you didn’t pay $80,000 for a college degree, we didn’t imprison people indefinitely without charges. We knew who we were, and we were the good guys. Now, it’s all upside down. The loss of all of this is what leads to the 9/11 truther movements, and the guys that say that everything under the sun is a false flag attack.
It all stems from our relationship with God. Fatima deals with our relationship with God. It's all part of the same parcel.
My 2 cents worth.
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