1677 painting of Giulio Mancinelli published in Vita magni servi Dei P. Julii Mancinelli
In the last post, Christ Declared the King of Poland, we had noted how the crowning of the Black Madonna of Częstochowa as Queen of Poland by King John II Casimir in 1656 was made in direct response to private revelations received by Servant of God Giulio Mancinelli, a much respected Jesuit missionary who flourished between 1537-1618. Given the fact that the private revelations of Giulio Mancinelli were so integral to the crowning of the Black Madonna (an event which would later tie in with the subsequent role Poland played in attaining victory during the Battle of Vienna), it should be worth taking in consideration some of the other lesser known private revelations recorded by this mystical priest. Especially in light of the recent proclamation of Christ as the King of Poland by both the state and Church authorities between 19th-20th Nov, 2016 - which parallels the request to crown Our Lady as Queen of Poland, which was initially given to Fr. Mancinelli by the Blessed Virgin herself.
While on a mission to England in 1608, Fr. Mancinelli reported that he had been visited by angels, who revealed to him the future destiny of this country in a series of visions:
"He beheld regions laid waste by all kinds of tempests, and so desolated by thunder, lightning, rain, hail, hurricanes and dreadful earthquakes that their wretched inhabitants knew not whither to flee for safety; even the caverns of the earth afforded no refuge. Being thus beyond all human help, the Father saw them at length with one accord prostrate and crying to God for mercy; he next heard this voice from Heaven: "It is not so much your sins as the enormities of your kings and rulers that has brought you to this condition, and subjected you to such severe punishments. But now know ye that I will deal with you in mercy, and raise your Church to a dignity that it has never heretofore attained. You shall win over the Turks and heretics under my protection, and with manifest prodigies from heaven such triumphs and victories that will astonish the rest of Europe. Lastly, the central sanctuary of the world, which I first established in Jerusalem, and which at present hallows the city of Rome, shall be placed in your midst, so that all surrounding nations shall congratulate you on your happiness. These special blessings shall be bestowed upon you for the sake of the eminent merits of the saints of this kingdom, and the hardships and the sufferings they have undergone for My sake."
(Jesuit Annual Letter of 1605. "Copie of a revelation made to Father Julius Mancinelli, S.J., concerning the success of the Kingdome of England")
This vision of the conversion of England ties in quite well with the original secret of La Salette given to Maximin Giraud, which similarly foretells that it is this event that eventually leads to the re-evangelisation of the world:
France has corrupted the universe, one day it will be punished. The faith will die out in France: three quarters of France will not practice religion anymore, or almost no more, the other part will practice it without really practicing it. Then, after [that], nations will convert, the faith will be rekindled everywhere. A great country, now Protestant, in the north of Europe, will be converted; by the support of this country all the other nations of the world will be converted.
Fr. Mancinelli's prophecy of the conversion of England after it has been struck by a series of calamities also shares many affinities with a famous prophecy made by St. Malachy:
Ireland will suffer English oppression for a week of centuries, but will preserve her fidelity to God and His Church. At the end of that time she will be delivered, and the English in turn must suffer severe chastisement. Ireland, however, will be instrumental in bringing back the English to the unity of Faith.
Although much doubt surrounds the authenticity of the other more well known list of popes attributed to St. Malachy, no such misgivings exist concerning this particular prophecy, which was uncovered in Clairvaux Abbey in the late 17th century, when the Benedictine scholar Dom Jean Mabillon was conducting research into the writings of St. Bernard. As a personal friend of St. Bernard, St. Malachy had spent some time at Clairvaux Abbey during his first pilgrimage to Rome, and had died there while making a second journey to the Eternal City in 1148.
When we compare Fr. Mancinelli's vision with the prophecy of St. Malachy, we can be almost certain that the chastisement which he saw afflicting England should be equated with its involvement in the wars of the 20th century, since we are told that its punishment was set to take place after Ireland was delivered from English oppression. The seven centuries of the English oppression of Ireland mentioned by St. Malachy extended from the Norman conquest in the late 12th century to the creation of the Irish Republic following the War of Independence in 1921.
During his famous "Second Spring" Sermon, Bl. John Henry Cardinal Newman, also commented on the prophetic role of England, which has been historically regarded as the "Dowry of Mary":
And others, also, his equals or his juniors in history, whose pictures are above our altars, or soon shall be, the surest proof that the Lord's arm has not waxen short, nor His mercy failed,—they, too, are looking down from their thrones on high upon the throng. And so that high company moves on into the holy place; and there, with august rite and awful sacrifice, inaugurates the great act which brings it thither." What is that act? it is the first synod of a new Hierarchy; it is the resurrection of the Church.
O my Fathers, my Brothers, had that revered Bishop so spoken then, who that had heard him but would have said that he spoke what could not be? What! those few scattered worshippers, the Roman Catholics, to form a Church! Shall the past be rolled back? Shall the grave open? Shall the Saxons live again to God? Shall the shepherds, watching their poor flocks by night, be visited by a multitude of the heavenly army, and hear how their Lord has been new-born in their own city? Yes; for grace can, where nature cannot. The world grows old, but the Church is ever young. She can, in any time, at her Lord's will, "inherit the Gentiles, and inhabit the desolate cities."
"Arise, Jerusalem, for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. Behold, darkness shall cover the earth, and a mist the people; but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and His glory shall be seen upon thee. Lift up thine eyes round about, and see; all these are gathered together, they come to thee; thy sons shall come from afar, and thy daughters shall rise up at thy side." "Arise, make haste, my love, my dove, my beautiful one, and come. For the winter is now past, and the rain is over and gone. The flowers have appeared in our land… the fig-tree hath put forth her green figs; the vines in flower yield their sweet smell. Arise, my love, my beautiful one, and come." It is the time for thy Visitation. Arise, Mary, and go forth in thy strength into that north country, which once was thine own, and take possession of a land which knows thee not. Arise, Mother of God, and with thy thrilling voice, speak to those who labour with child, and are in pain, till the babe of grace leaps within them! Shine on us, dear Lady, with thy bright countenance, like the sun in his strength, O stella matutina, O harbinger of peace, till our year is one perpetual May. From thy sweet eyes, from thy pure smile, from thy majestic brow, let ten thousand influences rain down, not to confound or overwhelm, but to persuade, to win over thine enemies. O Mary, my hope, O Mother undefiled, fulfil to us the promise of this Spring. A second temple rises on the ruins of the old.
(Cardinal John Henry Newman, The Second Spring, preached July 13th, 1852, in St. Mary's, Oscott, in the first Provincial Synod of Westminster. See here for the full text)
So the conversion of England is definitely a major theme in Catholic prophecy. An interesting original feature of Fr. Mancenelli's vision is that it appears to make the rather bold claim that the papacy will one day be relocated to England itself, which at first, seems rather incredulous. However, once we take into account the various prophecies which foretell that the pope will one day be forced to flee Rome, and indeed the visions of Blessed Elena Aiello, who saw Russian flagstaffs flying above the dome of St. Peter's Basilica, it is quite within the realms of possibility that the Church hierarchy would attempt to find sanctuary in another country if Italy was invaded by a power that will eventually be openly hostile to Catholicism (most likely under the auspices of the Antichrist himself). And if England is by this stage once again restored to the Catholic Faith, then the relative safety that the island of Britain provides against foreign invasion due to its geographical location may just clinch it as one of the most attractive places in Europe to provide refuge for the papacy.
97 comments:
Hi Emmett - Thanks for the post. I'd often wondered about some of this. First, a comment and then a couple of questions.
As to the Black Madonna - in 1655, the year before Mary was declared Queen of Poland, the monastery of Jasna Gora was attacked by the invading Swedish army. 300 or so monks and everyday people held off 3000 Swedes and German mercenaries. The Black Madonna was even taken, briefly, when the Swedes made it into the monastery. They hacked at the paining with a sword, and there are still a couple of cut marks in the wood. The Black Madonna is said to be the reason why Jasna Gora held out. (Only one other Polish city held out against the initial Swedish invasion - Zamosc. The Poles call this "The Deluge"). So there was more to the Black Madonna than just these prophecies.
The questions -
How do you think The Troubles fit into this? If I'm not mistaken, Northern Ireland was in armed conflict with the British from 1921 until the early 90's. So most of the 20th century saw about a quarter of Ireland still living Cromwell's Legacy (to steal someone else's phrase).
And the flag over the Vatican has always made me wonder. During Blessed Elena Aiello's life, she would have known the eagle flag of the Russian Empire in her youth, and the hammer and sickle until her death. Would you suppose that the flag would revert to the old Soviet style before this, or she saw the tri-color and just didn't mention it. It is a fairly big difference.
Thanks again,
Mark
That's an interesting point you bring up there, Mark. If Blessed Elena Aiello indeed saw the tricolor, it is truly by divine grace that she recognized as Russia's a flag that did not yet exist in her time. Considering the fact that Russia herself is indeed still Communist, while her former satellites have reverted to one form or another of democracy or monarchy, the truth of this vision is more than likely, all the more so when one considers that it was the Soviet Union's KGB behind the formation of the PLO and several other Middle Eastern "liberation" groups that subsequently grew into the monsters the world is facing today - and Russia is still quietly backing some of them. While it's true that Russia appears to be fighting against ISIS, it wouldn't be the first time it showed another, more sinister interpretation of the two heads of its eagle.
God bless.
JMC
Sister Elena would have understood Russia as "Communism" and it's supporting, secretive apparatus which is International Freemasonry.
Russia today is not a Communist state. On the contrary it is the West which is no under the firm control of radical, militant Freemasons and Communists and has been so since Reagan left office. Russia, on the other hand, is led by a man diametrically opposed to the West's Freemason and Communist agenda. The struggle between the Woman and the Dragon is now daily played out in our headlines, but it is actually the West who now serves the Dragon while it is Russia who serves the Woman. There is hope for the West and the recent Presidential election has confirmed that a large percentage of the People are now awake to duplicity and corruption of Western leaders. The daily, non-stop attacks on President-elect Trump's desire to normalize relations with Russia and prevent further conflict is evidence beyond any doubt that Satan's seat of power is no longer in Moscow but now in the West. This is Fatima playing out in realtime before our very eyes, although many in the West are incapable of interpreting the signs of the times in an impartial manner. If any flag ends up flying over the Vatican, it will not be a Russian flag. Rather, it will be the black flag of Freemasonry under the convenient cover of "radical Islam."
The Troubles seem to be left out of the equation here Mark, much as it pains me to say it. Yes, Catholics in Northern Ireland were still being treated with grave injustice by the British establishment after partition, and the oppression only really ended at the beginning of the peace process after the IRA ceasefire in 1994. Things have improved somewhat here since then. But the majority of Ireland was indeed liberated at the end of seven centuries, as was stipulated in the prophecy of St. Malachy.
I get the feeling we haven't seen the end of communist Russia, Mark. Things can change. There may well be a return to the hammer and sickle, and it would have disastrous consequences for the Catholics of Europe if a resurgent Soviet Empire invaded.
Political science professor and dean at American University Dean Jackson believes communism has never died. Yes, he is a 'conspiracy' advocate but he posits some credible evidence regarding their 'demise'.
https://sites.google.com/site/deanjackson60/home
sam
Actually, I did a wee bit more research. The tricolor Russian flag was first used in the 17th century, though the exact dates seem to depend on what source you read. It went out in 1918. It was one of the main flags for Russia from 1883 to 1918, sometimes with the double-eagle laid over the white-blue-red fields.
Here's the interesting bit relative to these private revelations - the official Russian flag is the simple tricolor, but the presidential flag is the tricolor with the double-eagle. The imperial standard (with the yellow background and black double-eagle) and the tricolor (with the gold double-eagle) seem to have coexisted from about 1700 until the Soviet flag came along.
And yes, Emmett, I suspect you're right about the resurgence of the Soviets.
Anonymous: You say that Russia today is not a Communist state. I beg to differ. In the years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, when the people were struggling to feed themselves, barter was the main system of purchase. When the government began to put itself back together, one of the big questions being asked among the apparatchiki was what system to use. They even held a referendum to ask the people themselves. Tired of starving and freezing for lack of funds, the people overwhelmingly chose to go back to Communism. So the form of government is a Federation, but the economy is socialist/communist. And when you get right down to it, socialism/communism are technically economic systems, not governmental systems, though they managed to make a government based on it for seventy some-odd years.
Anonymous above,
The Russian economy today is not Communist. On the contrary, the Western economy today is very close to a genuine Communist eco-political system: one where God is removed from public life, Freemasonry reigns, Militarism reigns, the Rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and the State is used to steal, murder, and usurp as it sees fit. This is the sad state of affairs in the once-Christian West today. Putin is one of the last Christian rulers of a Christian nation on planet earth today. Anyone saying that Russia is Communist is either deluded, ignorant or a Freemason here to spread State Department propaganda. Russia's present economy is actually very close to the Distributist Model proposed by G. K. Chesterton and Hilaire Belloc. This is what is to be expected from a nation - Russia - that gives the Orthodox Church a prominent and authoritative role in Governance and Politics. Such a role no longer exists for the Church here in the West, and this is due to the fact that Freemasonry firmly is in control of the West.
Anyone who actually understands Russian history would understand that Russia was Christian long before Freemason America even existed. The Soviets and the Communists were violently forced on Orthodox Russia against their will. These Soviets and Communists were mostly secular atheist Jews who were sent into Russia from the West in order to sow Revolutionary chaos and regime change (Lenin was shipped into Russia by the German General Staff in a sealed train, for example) It's the same modus operandi in use today by secular atheist Jews in places like Ukraine ("Maidain") and Syria ("Syrian Rebels"). Some things never change.
Also, the term "Communism" gets used interchangeably with "Russia" by Western Catholics and commentators on a seemingly regular basis. Do you even know what Communism is? Communism is, essentially, militant Atheism violently imposed on a Nation against its will. This is exactly what happened in Russia in 1917. Russia had been Orthodox Christian for hundreds of years before a group of atheist, Freemason Jews decided to violently force regime change on her. Russia today, however, has reclaimed her Orthodox roots and Putin kicked the atheist, Freemason Jewish Oligarchs out of the country. This is why the West has a burning hatred of Putin and Russia.
Was there not also a famour prophecy that a Christian Russia would save the world ?
According to Our Lady of Fatima who made the formal request on 29 June 1929, when Russia was consecrated (by name)to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by the Pope and the world's bishops, Russia would be converted (to Roman Catholicism) and would be the salvation of Western Civilisation; a period of peace would be granted the world. Marxism takes many forms, but we see that it has spread its errors throughout the world and even the Church in the heresy of Modernism.
Many believe that the "100 years given Satan to destroy the church" will end on 29 June 2029, especially as Our Lord appeared in 1931 to Sr Lucia of Fatima to complain that the consecration was not done; and he pointedly refered to the fate of the Kings of France who refused to accomplish a similar consecration of their country to the Sacred Heart -- 100 years to the date of Our Lord's request via St Margaret Mary Aloque, the king of France was de-throned, and later beheaded.
Apparrently when Vladimir Putin visited Pope Francis, he raised the topic of Fatima: --but the Pope replied [described by a witness as in a "dismissive" way] "We do not speak of Fatima."
There is a prophecy that "When England returns to the Faith, Our Lady will return to Walsingham." Our Lady of Walsingham was and is the Patroness of all England-- and loosely, patroness of English-speaking peoples--. The ruined site of her ancient shrine remains in private hands since the English reformation, though there are Catholic, Anglican, and Orthodox shrines there. The ancient statue, reported burnt at Chelsea in 1536, (like the Madonna of Ipswich, a copy of the Walsingham madonna was burnt there) will be discovered where it was hidden in the Low Countries after the re-conversion of England; and it will return to the shrine rebuilt on the original site when England is once again a Catholic nation.
There is a parallel request by Our Lady of America to have her statue enthroned by all American Bishops at the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington DC; but the majority of bishops are uninterested in this, though Our Lady promised to restore the USA to purity and its original ideals, and "for miracles of conversion greater than at Lourdes and Fatima." Notably, Cardinal Burke, chief defendor of Catholic Orthodoxy in the "Dubita", is the only major US prelate working towards answering the request of Our Lady of America-- whose image as The Immaculate Virgin with her Lily sceptre echoes somewhat that of Walsingham.
Russia has returned to her Orthodox Faith, and Vladimir Putin has been instrumental in this. It is absolutely not communist. The western nations have become atheistic, cultur marxists. Russia and Hungary are vigorously defendi.g Christianity.
Russia certainly is not communist now and I do not believe that communism will ever return to Russia. Once St John Paul 11 did the consecration in 1984 we saw the spectacular fall of communism in the Soviet Union and in the eastern block of enslaved nations. President Putin and Medvedev the Prime minister both attend church weekly. Thousands of churches have opened up across Russia since the fall of communism. The churches are full in Russia. The mayor of Moscow has been organising the building of hundreds of churches in the Moscow region such is the demand and the fervour of the Russian people for God.
Also Pope Francis dedicated his papacy to Our Lady of Fatima.
Beware good Catholics, Satan is trying to split our holy church just like he has done to Orthodox and protestant churches. Let us all be Catholic not conservative Catholic or liberal Catholic but Catholic. True to our faith and true to our traditions. If you like the Latin mass go there if you prefer the modern mass go to that one. They are both valid.
Please let us all support our Pope and the Bishops and the priests and all our fellow Catholics around the world.
God bless
Anthony
Anthony,
I couldnt agree more with your last paragraph. Very well said!
stephen
Anonymous said, 'Apparrently when Vladimir Putin visited Pope Francis, he raised the topic of Fatima: --but the Pope replied [described by a witness as in a "dismissive" way] "We do not speak of Fatima."'
But Anthony also said, "Also Pope Francis dedicated his papacy to Our Lady of Fatima".
So, why did Pope Francis decline to speak of Fatima to Putin? Is this another of his ambiguous behaviors? Or is there more or less to Anonymous's mention of Putin and the Pope?
Perspiring minds want to know.
Anonymous said, 'Apparrently when Vladimir Putin visited Pope Francis, he raised the topic of Fatima: --but the Pope replied [described by a witness as in a "dismissive" way] "We do not speak of Fatima."'
But Anthony also said, "Also Pope Francis dedicated his papacy to Our Lady of Fatima".
So, why did Pope Francis decline to speak of Fatima to Putin? Is this another of his ambiguous behaviors? Or is there more or less to Anonymous's mention of Putin and the Pope?
Perspiring minds want to know.
The Consecration John Paul II pêrformed in 1984 was imperfect since it was not made in union with all the world's bishops nor did the Pope dare to utter the word "Russia".
Therefore, though it certainly helped to bring down the Iron Curtain and the Soviet Union to disappear together with the communist ideology in the Varsaw Pact countries, it didn't produce the conversion of the orthodoxs to the true catholic Faith nor the period of peace Our Lady promised.
Vladimir Putin in my opinion has become a sincere othodox faithful and he is striving to restore the faith as it was before the bolshevik revolution. At least 25000 churches were built or restored since he took the power. He got rid of the gay and gender ideologies in the country. The next step is probably to strictly forbid the abortions since Russia's demography is spiralling downwards. The true christian values are exalted. Putin's aim is to bring back the Great Holy Russia of the Czar times.
We may be certain that the Consecration of Russia to the IHM will be made in a not so remote fguture by a Pope according to the exact wishes of our Lady, it is to say: Namely in union with all the world's bishops. Then the orthodoxs and the catholics will merge in a unique Church and the Church will blossom as never before.
According to catholic prophesy Islam will invade Rome and lift there flag over the residence of the pope This may cause the pope to move to England for a short time.
If the purpose of the Consecration of Russia was to convert the Orthodox to Roman Catholicism, then why did Our Lady wait until 1917 to appear. The Orthodox have been in a state of schism for hundreds of years and yet Our Lady suddenly decided to appear in 1917? Not buying it. 1917 was an important year because this was the year that atheist Freemasons violently overthrew the legitimate authorities in Russia and forced Atheism onto the Orthodox Christians of Russia. Obviously, Atheism is a greater evil than Schism. Even though our Orthodox brothers are in Schism, they still have the Sacraments. I have a hard time believing that the Schism was the primary reason Our Lady of Fatima appeared in 1917. Our Lady had a bigger Dragon to slay than Schism.
Anonymous 9 January 2017 at 08:42
You don't "buy" that our Lady asked for Russia's Consecration with the aim to convert this country but these are the exact words she uttered to Sr Lucy: "Russia will convert and a period of peace will be given to the World".
Sr Lucy later spoke of a "miracle of conversion" when the consecration will be performed.
Those who think that this conversion was the fall of the communism are completely misled.
I completely agree Jac.
It is actually concerning to me that Catholics would expect the Blessed Virgin to have intended conversion to anything other than the One true Church of Christ.
I have deep respect for Orthodoxy but we cannot forget that they are not in full communion with Rome.
As it is, Russia today is run by a corrupt oligarchy of former KGB operatives. Chekhism - lawless brutality - remains the real ideology of Russia, even while Putin has promoted insane ideologues like Alexsandr Dugin who promote a fascist-like, racial belief system known as "Eurasianism," which posits civilizations warfare against the 'Atlanticist' powers of the West and dominance of the European continent, at least in the East.
Catholicism is a persecuted religion in Russia. The Catholic Church in occupied regions of Ukraine is under siege. If you look at Crimea, you will understand the fate Russia has in store for the Baltic states and other Eastern European nations if it gets its way:
http://europe.newsweek.com/putin-cracks-down-christians-crimea-328030?rm=eu
"...PUTIN CRACKS DOWN ON CHRISTIANS IN CRIMEA
Roman Catholics, Baptists, Muslims and Jehovah's Witnesses are among the faiths forced to toe the Moscow line.
Russia's stricter rules on foreign religious personnel have forced the closure of a small Roman Catholic convent in Simferopol. In January, a Polish Roman Catholic priest was fined and forced to leave for ministering in Yalta while on a tourist visa.
Eastern Rite Catholic priests—typically citizens of Ukraine—may spend only 90 days at a time on the peninsula before leaving for a further 90. All 23 foreign imams and Islamic religious teachers were forced to leave Crimea by the end of 2014, despite having been vetted by the Turkish government...
The Roman Catholic parishes belong to a diocese covering territory mostly still in Ukraine. Rather than transfer them to a Russian diocese—and so implicitly acknowledge Crimea's annexation—the Catholic Church has created a separate administrative district solely for Crimea. Its registration application has already been rejected.
It is hard to envisage how this Catholic administrative district will gain Russian legal status while continuing to acknowledge its subordination to a Ukrainian diocese. The same goes for the Eastern-rite Catholic Exarchate of Crimea..."
Note that Our Lady referred explicitly to Russia's "errors" in the plural, Marxist-Leninism only being one. The Russian language has an actual word for military deception to influence public opinion, Marskirovska:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_deception
Russian military deception, sometimes known as Maskirovka (Маскировка), is a military doctrine developed from the start of the twentieth century...
Later versions of the doctrine also include strategic, political, and diplomatic means including manipulation of "the facts", situation and perceptions to affect the media and public/world opinion, so as to achieve or facilitate tactical, strategic, national and international goals...
Russia has converted from Atheistic Communism and nuclear war was avoided in 1985 according to Sister Lucia herself. But the errors of Russia - atheistic Communism - did spread because the Consecration came too late, and those errors are now fully on display in the West. The West, under the leadership of the Atheistic Freemasons like Barack Obama and the Neocon Gang that control him, now serve the Dragon and are now waging proxy war against a converted Russia. 2017 seems to be shaping up to be an important year of sorts. Some say we are headed towards a conclusion one way or the other - Chastisement or Peace - it all depends on us and how well we devote ourselves to prayer and penance.
Anonymous, quit posting that Neocon State Department propaganda here regarding Putin. Those are lies from the Father of Lies.
Catholics and other religions are not persecuted in Russia. "Chekhism" is not the "ideology" that rules in Russia. Law and Order rules in Russia. "Checkhism" and neo-Naziism rules in Ukraine where the Neocon-led West succeeded in violently overthrowing the democratically elected leader of Ukraine, Yanukovych.
Most Ukrainians did not and do not support the illegal and violent takeover of Kiev by a bunch of Communist and Nazi thugs. Crimeans voted to leave Ukraine after it became clear that they would be treated like those in Odessa and Donbass have been treated. Ukraine is currently a Nazi-occupied State and where is the Catholic Church in condemning the violent takeover of Ukraine.
Same could be said of Poland which has become nothing more than a cheap prostitute for NATO missiles. Seems like the Poles are making the same mistake with Putin that they made with Hitler prior to WWII: they thought that they could poke Hitler in the eye and then hide behind the worthless war guarantee from Britain. We all know how that ended. Seems that the Poles have a knack for starting World Wars.
To understand modern Russia under Putin, people need to be aware of the doctrines of Alexsandr Dugin. He is the de facto propagandist of the regime:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin
Aleksandr Gelyevich Dugin (Russian: Алекса́ндр Ге́льевич Ду́гин; born 7 January 1962) is a Russian political scientist known for his fascist views[4][5][6] who calls to hasten the "end of times" with all out war.[7][8][9][10][11] He has close ties with the Kremlin and the Russian military,[12][13] having served as an advisor to State Duma speaker Gennadiy Seleznyov[14] and key member of the ruling United Russia party Sergei Naryshkin...
Dugin also advocates for a Russo-Arab alliance.[24]
“ In principle, Eurasia and our space, the heartland Russia, remain the staging area of a new anti-bourgeois, anti-American revolution. ... The new Eurasian empire will be constructed on the fundamental principle of the common enemy: the rejection of Atlanticism, strategic control of the USA, and the refusal to allow liberal values to dominate us. This common civilizational impulse will be the basis of a political and strategic union. ”
— The Basics of Geopolitics (1997)
The reborn Russia, according to Dugin's concept, is said by Charles Clover of the Financial Times to be a slightly remade version of the Soviet Union with echoes of Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell, where Eurasia was one of three continent-sized super states including Eastasia and Oceania as the other two and was participating in endless war between them.[17]...
Aleksandr Dugin supports Putin and his foreign policies...In the Kremlin, Dugin represents the "war party", a division within the leadership over Ukraine.[34] Dugin is seen as an author of Putin's initiative for the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation.[35] He considered the war between Russia and Ukraine to be inevitable and appealed for Putin to start military intervention in eastern Ukraine.[35] Dugin said, "The Russian Renaissance can only stop by Kiev."[36] During the 2014 pro-Russian conflict in Ukraine, Dugin was in regular contact with pro-Russian separatist insurgents..."
See:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia is a geopolitical book by Alexander Dugin. The book has had a large influence within the Russian military, police, and foreign policy elites[1] and was allegedly used as a textbook in the General Staff Academy of Russian military.[1]...
The book declares that "the battle for the world rule of [ethnic] Russians" has not ended and Russia remains "the staging area of a new anti-bourgeois, anti-American revolution." The Eurasian Empire will be constructed "on the fundamental principle of the common enemy: the rejection of Atlanticism, strategic control of the USA"...
Military operations play relatively little role. The textbook believes in a sophisticated program of subversion, destabilization, and disinformation spearheaded by the Russian special services. The operations should be assisted by a tough, hard-headed utilization of Russia's gas, oil, and natural resources to bully and pressure other countries.[1]..."
The Russian elite are obsessed with this occultic, semi-fascist ideology.
"...Anonymous, quit posting that Neocon State Department propaganda here regarding Putin. Those are lies from the Father of Lies.
Catholics and other religions are not persecuted in Russia. "Chekhism" is not the "ideology" that rules in Russia. Law and Order rules in Russia. "Checkhism" and neo-Naziism rules in Ukraine where the Neocon-led West succeeded in violently overthrowing the democratically elected leader of Ukraine, Yanukovych..."
Honestly, you are being hoodwinked by Putin's false displays of Christianity.
Would a good Christian praise Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union?
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/01/25/for-putin-for-stalin-russia-propaganda/
"...Over the last few years, President Vladimir Putin has presided over the rehabilitation of one of the 20th century’s greatest monsters. Bedeviled by the country’s economic decay and fearful of dissent, he has turned to the ghost of Stalin help to rally the Russian people and to prepare them for the sacrifices that lie ahead...."
Here's the reality:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/ukrainian-catholics-experiencing-total-persecution-in-crimea/
Ukrainian Catholics experiencing 'total persecution' in Crimea
CNA/EWTN News).- As the Russian president signed a bill to annex Crimea Tuesday, the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in the peninsula has been experiencing what a Church official calls “total persecution.”
“At this moment all Ukrainian Greek Catholic life in Crimea is paralyzed,” Fr. Volodymyr Zhdan, chancellor of the Stryi eparchy in western Ukraine, told CNA March 18...
In Crimea, clergy have received threatening phone calls and messages. At the home of one apprehended priest, a note was left that read this should be “a lesson to all Vatican agents.”
“This is not new,” Bishop Vasyl Ivasyuk, who served as Exarch of Odesa-Krym from 2003 to 2014, told CNA.
“During Soviet times, we were always accused of being ‘agents’ of the Vatican,” Bishop Ivasyuk continued. “Of course not all people in Crimea think we are spies, but there is a very active pro-Russian group there that does.”
The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church was heavily persecuted during the Soviet era; it was considered illegal, and operated completely underground until 1989.
“The Church emerged from the underground 25 years ago, having been the largest illegal church in the world for 45 years prior,” Bishop Boris Gudziak, Eparch of Paris, explained to CNA last month..."
But by all means, believe what you will.
Dugin is a reminder that there is an actual hardline, war party in the Kremlin. He is also a reminder that Putin is actually a moderate.
If the roles were reversed, and it was a warmongering Russian empire staging regime change in Canada and Mexico and sanctioning the American economy to the point that ordinary Americans were hurting, I can guarantee you that the Neocon nutcases like John McCain, Linsdey Graham, Victoria Nuland and other American "Dugins" would have already lauched the nukes.
Thankfully, Russia is led by a man who is a spiritual warrior first and a cold warrior second and is someone who has exercised great restraint thus far in the face of provocation after provocation by the violent West.
I see the neo-Nazi Kiev Junta and Obama's State Department have sent some shills here to lie about the situation in Ukraine and lie about Putin. They need American Catholics to continue hating Russia in order to keep selling the big lie on Ukraine.
Putin only appears more "moderate" than Dugin because he adopts a more intelligent, public persona.
He is a genius, I will give him that.
But people are being hoodwinked by him. Read his views on the Soviet Union and tell me they are Christian. Why does he glorify that regime and lament its fall?
And to the poster who accuses me if being part of a Neo-Nazi junta, please cease from attacking people in such an unfounded manner.
I am in fact British and live in London - not exactly near Kiev.
As recently as September this year, Putin reiterated this stance:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-23/putin-says-soviet-union-s-collapse-wasn-t-inevitable
"...Putin Says Soviet Union’s Collapse Wasn’t Inevitable
His remarks, in response to observations by Communist Party leader Gennady Zyuganov, echoed Putin’s 2005 comment that the collapse of the Soviet Union was “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe” of the 20th century. The USSR was dissolved in December 1991, four months after a failed coup by Communist hard-liners to try to thwart Soviet general secretary Mikhail Gorbachev’s plan to devolve power to individual republics. It collapsed more than 18 months after Lithuania led the Baltic republics in declaring independence..."
This is not good, not good at all and bodes very ill for the future.
Edited for typo above:
Putin does not lament [the fall] of atheistic Communism. He laments the fact that ordinary Russians were hurt - and many suffered and died horrible deaths of neglect - because of the despicable way in which corrupt Russian officials let the Soviet Union break up.
Putin also laments the fact that the promise the West made to Russia that NATO would not be expanded eastward following the fall of the Berlin wall was a worthless promise and a stab into the back of all the hard work that Reagan, Gorbachev and Saint Pope John Paul II worked to achieve. The Reagan-Gorbachev-JPII Peace Dividend was squandered, but not by Russia. It was squandered by the Neocons who hijacked the Reagan Revolution - the same group of Neocons who are pushing so hard right now for a hot war with Russia.
Then why has Putin rehabilitated Stalin?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/opinion/sunday/stalinist-nostalgia-in-vladimir-putins-russia.html?_r=0
"...A survey released on March 1 by the Levada Center, a research organization based in Moscow, found that 40 percent of Russians thought the Stalin era brought “more good than bad,” up from 27 percent in 2012. In an annual Levada survey published in January 2015, a majority of Russians (52 percent) said Stalin “probably” or “definitely” played a positive role in the country.
This quiet rehabilitation began after Vladimir V. Putin came to power in 1999. Stalin’s legacy has become a tacit justification as the Putin government has strengthened its own grip on power. Under Stalin, “order” and national prestige trumped human rights or civil liberties.
“By raising the figure of Stalin, the Putin regime is trying to raise the idea that collective interests are more important than individual lives, and that means the regime has less responsibility to society,” Lev Gudkov, who conducts the Levada Center’s Stalin polls, told me.
Here in Penza, the Communist Party opened a Stalin Center in December. It’s just a few rooms of old photographs and newspapers and a lecture hall with a giant portrait of Stalin, but it makes a statement. A golden bust of Stalin stands in front of the building.
Sites like these are becoming more and more common. In 2015, the Communist Party, which has 92 of 450 seats in Parliament and often toes the Kremlin line, raised a banner with pictures of Lenin and Stalin as the backdrop for the party plenary session. At Victory Day celebrations last May 9, his image adorned a fence next to a Moscow police station. Moscow’s best-known bookstore was recently promoting a book called “How Stalin Defeated Corruption.”...
But Stalin receives more than just cagey rhetorical support. On Feb. 22, the Russian Military History Society — which Mr. Putin founded in 2012, is headed by the minister of culture and receives millions of dollars in state funding each year — paid for a bust of Stalin to be installed at a war museum in the city of Pskov, near the Estonian border. The minister of culture recently supported an exhibition of Socialist Realist paintings by Aleksandr Gerasimov, one of Stalin’s court painters, featuring portraits of the “generalissimo.”..."
Why do Americans lionize men like Harry Truman? Putin once noted that Stalin's purges pale in comparison to the United States' atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If was okay for "the greatest generation" to give essential military aid to Stalin during WWII, then why can't Russians acknowledge his role in defeating Hitler?
In September 2009, the Education Ministry of Russia announced that Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelago, a book once banned in the Soviet Union for the detailed account on the system of prison camps, became required reading for Russian high-school students. So much for Putin being a "Soviet-lover" and "Stalin-sympathizer." It just happens that Putin is an objective observer of Russian history. How dare he!!!!
"Why do Americans lionize men like Harry Truman?"
I'm not an American so I cannot really say. For my part, I regard Hiroshima and Nagasaki as horrendous war crimes.
Still, Stalin's crimes were more extensive and wide-ranging. Uncountable millions died during his forced collectivizations and purges. According to one study I read, ten million people died of starvation, more than five million were displaced and six to seven million were arrested for political reasons.
Surely you aren't comparing anything Harry Truman did to that?
"In September 2009, the Education Ministry of Russia announced that Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelago"
Then that is commendable but it is exceedingly rare under Putin's tenure. There is a concerted effort to disassociate Stalin from the crimes committed by his regime and downplay the "excesses" of his rule.
The problem is that Stalin committed so many atrocities that this is a difficult endeavour to achieve.
See:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3069108/The-rehabilitation-Stalin-Putin-rewrites-history-convince-half-Russians-megalomaniac-dictator-just-man-good-intentions.html
"Putin has been ambivalent about the role of Stalin, condemning the 'ugliness' of state-sponsored terror but also saying his regime should not be compared to that of Nazi Germany.
'The Stalin regime never aimed to exterminate entire ethnic groups,' the Russian president said during his televised phone-in last month.
Since President Vladimir Putin took power in 2000, there has been a growing chorus of Russians who take a positive view of the Soviet tyrant's role in history..
I see the State Department shills are active on this thread. The giveaway is how they immediately demonize Putin and pull out the Stalin talking point right on cue. For the rest of us who actually follow current events in an impartial manner, we know that Putin was not celebrating Stalin's crimes.
If you honestly think that I'm from the US State Department (which is wildly insane IMHO), then please ask Emmett - if he has Google Analytics or one such other IP address tracker - to check my IP address.
It would be very exciting if I led such a life but alas, you will find that I'm from the good old rainy UK - much more boring lol.
I have serious misgivings about Vladimir Putin and Russia under him but that does not make this British Catholic typing away on his laptop into an American "shill".
To fling around unfounded accusations like that is just silly and is a means to divert the topic away from my (perfectly valid) criticisms of Putinism.
To think, for simply daring to speak negatively about Vladimir Putin I have been accused of being an undercover "shill" of Neo-Nazi Kiev-based Junta and a double agent for the U.S. State Department.
Why, my life has suddenly become more interesting than either James Bond or Jason Bourne !
Anonymous, your "serious misgivings" about Putin are right out of the Neocon State Department playbook. That's why many suspect you are a shill. You say you are from the UK: would that be the American or Ukrainian Embassy in London? LOL!
You are joking, right?
I'm not going persist in this daft conversation regarding my nationality any longer. I am British born, British raised and have never visited any Embassy in London.
By all means, disagree profoundly with my comments and arguments. I welcome that.
But I do not welcome this nonsensical flurry of accusations from yourself and the other poster that I am a "shill".
I am anything but - and come to the point: how do I know that YOU are not a shill of the Russian government?
You see, two can play at that game. Its silly.
I agree. I think Russia and Trump aren't on the military-industrial complex crazy train. I think some need to use the old cold war and act like anticommunist crusaders to feel relevant after having betrayed the American people and because Trump broke their control and bruised their egos. That being said, I still don't know if this is another episode in their show the elite put on for us, like when "pro" wrestlers became allies in one Main Event or Wrestlemania, and enemies in another. so I voted for the Constitutional Party candidate.
Noted, but, whether he is truly Orthodox or an actor, he has cleaned up a lot of moral filth in Russia. I would gladly take persecution, as a Catholic, if a president did that here. Besides, it seems like there were stronger Catholic families and less worldliness before we were "accepted". It might do us some good, though I prefer Russia does it than globalist perverts. I just don't like their palling around with China. What decent Christian leader would do that?
Why has our seemingly liberal president courting "homophobic" and misogynist Muslim organizations in N. Africa, the Middle-East and here and neo-nazis regimes in the Ukraine? Is all that pro abirtion and gay stuff just some distraction for the liberal base as he supports the opposite of what they care about? Granted, Bush probably did that to us with pro-life legislation he signed. Both and the previous two presidents likely were stooges of the military-industrial complex and the bankers and usual suspects. That's probably why neo-livs abd neo-cons go after Trump, Assange and Russia and not Soros over election meddling. Their puppet leader making is not finished, yet.
As far as the Poles go, they did make Jesus king of Poland, but I remember when Madonna performed there on the Feast of the Assumption. They should have blocked her entry. We do better under persecution, but it is still better nations are not run by those who antagonize God. Sadly, we have elected many persecutors.
Can we all comment on the original post? Not that the comments aren't interesting but they've gone way off track. A Russian invasion of Rome may cause the Pope to flee or it may not be that at all. What happens in relation to Russia may have absolutely nothing to do with the conversion of England.
I don't see England converting anytime soon under the current circumstances. People like Richard Dawkins are lionized in Britain and anti-Catholicism still runs rampant among the Neocon ruling class in Britain. I think it would take a miraculous intervention to convert England. Perhaps if some kind of public miracle akin to the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima were to occur, then perhaps England would convert. Right England is too blinded by Materialism and Atheism for there to be any large-scale conversion in the near future, IMHO.
Don't feed the anonymous troll, people.
And to the anonymous posters that have pretty much taken over this thread - most of us don't really read anonymous posts. Sign your stuff and you might get further.
A Russian invasion of Rome may not happen now because of the 1984 consecration St John Paul 11 did. It's important to remember what St Lucia said about the 1984 consecration when she said that if that consecration had not been done a nuclear war would of broken out in 1985. If you read the third secret it is clear at the end of the vision that the Angel is about to set fire to the whole world but Our Lady stops it from happening.
Oh clement oh loving oh sweet virgin Mary
God bless
Anthony
And also because of the 1984 consecration communism is gone for good from Russia. We are seeing Christianity coming back very strongly. And when the triumph of Our lady's immaculate heart takes place we will see Orthodoxy and Catholicism reunited again.
God bless
Anthony
I agree Mark W, I probably should've signed before posting. I'll do that from now on.
I find Emmett's blog to be a very interesting read. He is one of the few online bloggers on Catholic eschatology whom I find actually writes with professionalism. Compelling stuff.
Sorry for helping to misdirect the thread as well. It wasn't intentional.
What I regard as intriguing - although I'm not certain if its significant - is that none of the prophecies implicating Russia in an assault upon Rome or the Pontiff, mention the Soviet Union.
They all say "Russia" - as far as I can tell - even Fatima.
To me, this could indicate that it has bearing today - and not just for the Cold War era that ended in 1989.
Hi Colin,
Keep in mind - at Fatima, the Soviet Union hadn't been created yet. It wasn't technically created until 1922.
Mark
Hi Mark,
Indeed but Sister Lucia did not write down the Second Secret until later on. It wasn't published until 1941.
Had Sister Lucia felt that the Blessed Virgin was clearly referring only to "Communist Russia" (to be fair the Soviet Union was comprised of many republics, not merely the Russian Federation), couldn't she have indicated this?
Consider also that Sister Lucia could specifically have said "the error of Communism". Instead, she used the plural - "errors" seeming to imply more than one ideological heresy.
When we turn to the visions of Blessed Elena Aiello, we have a prophetic voice clearly situated in the Soviet era - yet she also follows the Fatima convention of referring to "Russia", "Russia's secret armies", "Russian flag" and so forth.
Consider also that Stalin was Georgian, Yuri Andropov was half Ukranian and half Finnish.
The Soviet Union was broader than simply "Russia," hence why it could be ruled by men who were not Russians.
Now, Russia was indisputably at the core of this atheistic, Marxist Empire as the largest member state.
And yet in the late 1980s, it was the Russian Federation as a member state under Yeltsin that collaborated with other subject republic's in the Union to oppose the central Supreme Soviet and Secretary-General of the Communist Party. In this respect, Russia can be seen to be as much a vassal state as the others of the governing Soviet elite, differing only in its colossal size.
Still, one could say that "Russia" was simply a synonym for "Soviet" much like England sometimes is for Britain but it both are technically inaccuracies.
So what I'm basically asking is this: when we refer to the Soviet era, should we view "Russia" as the aggressor?
Or - as per that iconic image of Yeltsin atop the tank decrying "Soviet" control of Russia and the other republics - view "Russia" as one of the subjugated nations of the Marxist-Leninist Soviet central government?
I think this subtle difference could have bearing upon how we interpret these prophecies referring to 'Russia'.
They depict Russia as the aggressor that has to "convert" and change its ways. Now, Russia was at the heart of the Soviet system but it was still inferior in status as an entity to the overarching Politburo and KGB run by the Communists, in the Stalin era under a Georgian dictator.
"Russia" was not the agressor during the Soviet error. The aggresors were a gang of Atheist revolutionaries, most of whom were not Orthodox and not ethnically Russian, who violently seized control of Russia in 1917. Most of these violent revolutionaries were the ancestors of the current regime of Neocons who have usurped the once Christian West. They use the same modus operandi today that they used in 1917: violent "protests" leading to the overthrow of the legitimate authorities. This was recently on display for the whole world to see in Ukraine and Syria, where the Neocons staged the same kind of violent revolution that was on display in Russia in 1917. The strangest part of it all, and only something that can be understood in light of Fatima, is that it is now Russia who has taken up the cause of Christendom. Vladimir Putin is the only leader of a superpower who is actually a Christian. Not one of the leaders of the West today - whether in France, or America, or Germany, or Great Britain, etc. - can claim to be a defender of Christendom. On the contrary, they are defenders of International Freemasonry, Communism, and the Neocon agenda and have funded and armed (by proxy) the near total destruction of Catholicism in the birthplace of Catholicism in the Middle East, particularly Syria. Putin was the only one who stood up to their Evil. Fatima has certainly played out in realtime before our very eyes, yet so many in the West are too blinded by ideology and loyalty to their particular secular States to see the obvious. They would rather demonize Putin rather than face up to the Evil perpetrated by the once-Christian West almost nonstop since Reagan left office. We can only hope Trump will avert the course, because the world literally hangs by a thread at the moment. The flaming sword warned about at Fatima has been readied not by God but by the Wicked themselves and if the warmongering continues, God will simply let it reach it's logical conclusion.
*Sigh*
Good to hear from you again anonymous..............
Well, the soviets were councils and advisors, at the very beginning. They morphed into something bigger over time. Ultimately, the Supreme Soviet was the council that ran things, with the Politburo controlling the Supreme Soviet.
So in that regard, Yeltsin was correct in condemning the Soviets (councils) that ran things in the old union of soviets (hence, Soviet Union).
I don't think you can easily and simply separate the soviets from the Russians or the Russians from the Soviets. The soviets didn't exist in the same way in the other Warsaw Pact countries, though they did exist within the republics inside the Soviet Union.
Now, as to Mr. Anonymous Troll - I'm gonna feed you just this once. It's absolutely ridiculous to say that the Russians were not aggressors during the Soviet era. The Russo-Polish war in 1920. The aggressive annexation of the Warsaw Pact countries of central Europe after WWII. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. I think your comment is correct in most things, but there are no saints in politics anymore, least of all in Russian or American politics. Don't glorify Russia just to demonize the US, and don't glorify the US just to demonize Russia. Fair's fair.
To the trolls "Mark W" and "Colin Cooper," please re-read my comment in response to your obvious troll comments. You said "Russia" was the aggressor. Yes, if you mean by "Russia" the small group of Jewish atheists who violently overthrew hundreds of years of Orthodox Christianity in Russia in 1917 then yes, in that sense, "Russia" was the aggressor. Don't dance around the issue. Russia was Christian for hundreds of years before the 1917 violent takeover by violent atheist, Jewish revolutionaries - the forefathers of the Neocon gang currently running the West.
Communism as existed in the Soviet Union may not exist in the same form, but Liberation Theology that is spreading across the globe that originated with the KGB and Patriarch Kirill is a mixture of Marxism and Christianity and is just as evil.
The Secret Roots of Liberation Theology
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/417383/secret-roots-liberation-theology-ion-mihai-pacepa
"Liberation theology, of which not much has been heard for two decades, is back in the news. But what is not being mentioned is its origins. It was not invented by Latin American Catholics. It was developed by the KGB. The man who is now the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kirill, secretly worked for the KGB under the code name “Mikhailov” and spent four decades promoting liberation theology, which we at the top of the Eastern European intelligence community nicknamed Christianized Marxism."
God bless you
Former Soviet spy: We created Liberation Theology
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/former-soviet-spy-we-created-liberation-theology-83634/
To Midge. Yes you are right about Liberation Theology being a Soviet creation. The Soviets used the Romanian secret police to infiltrate into the Catholic church in South and central America. St John Paul 11 was aware of this and tried to combat this evil infiltration.
God bless
Anthony
Prayer to Royal St. Joseph
Back to this article. The conversion of England has begun through a powerful and sure way. The following prayer was approved by Bishop Egan.
Royal St. Joseph, chosen by God the Father to be His Son’s earthly Father. Look down upon England, Mary’s Dowry. See the House of Nazareth is broken.
Do not look upon this poor sinner and turn away, but through your most powerful intercession, take your heavenly tools and rebuild your Spouse’s House and give it back to her more resplendent than it was before.
Restore to the Mother of God what is rightfully hers, so England may once again be a light to the Nations, where Christ the King reigns over us, and His mother is seated at His right Hand as Our Immaculate Queen. Amen.
Glory Be…O Christ the King, reign over us.
Glory Be…O Mary Immaculate Queen, intercede for us.
Glory Be…O Royal St. Joseph, hear us through our Guardian Angel. Amen.
The National Shrine of St. Joseph is at Farnborough Abbey. Visit if you can. His work has begun and he will not stop until this is done for Our Lady, his earthly Spouse, and thus the prophecies about England are fulfilled through this remarkably powerful Royal saint who will repair a Royal sin.
St. John Bosco famously prophesied that a "warrior" would arise from a country in the North of Europe, which scholars such as Bernard McGinn have taken to be a reference to the Great Monarch or "Last World Emperor" figure that was so recurrent as a theme in apocalyptic literature throughout the middle ages.
In one of his former blog posts, Emmett surmised that the "Two Witnesses" spoken of in the Book of Revelation are, quite possibly, meant to be identified with the enigmatic 'Last World Emperor' and 'Angelic Pontiff' figures. If so, does this mean that we have grounds to anticipate at least one of these individuals - probably the so-called "Emperor" in light of St. John Bosco's aforementioned prophecy - to arise from England to help usher in the 'Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary', the Era of Peace?
Here is what St. John Bosco said, compare it with the Secret of La Salette to Maximin as quoted by Emmett in the OP:
"War will come from the south, peace from the north.
The laws of France no longer recognize the Creator. The Creator will reveal Himself by visiting her three times with the scourge of His wrath. The first time He will destroy her pride by defeat, pillage, and destruction of crops, cattle, and men. On His second visit the great whore of Babylon, which the faithful grievingly call Europe's brothel, shall lose her leader and fall prey to chaos...
But behold, a great warrior from the north appears, a banner in his right hand, his arm bearing this inscription: 'Irresistible is the hand of the Lord.' At that moment the Venerable Old Man of Rome went forward to meet him, wielding a flaming torch. The banner then grew larger and its blackness became white as snow; in its center stood out the name of the Almighty in golden letters.
The warrior and his followers bowed profoundly to the Venerable Old Man and joined hands with him...
At this blow earth and hell shall tremble, but the world will be saved and the faithful shall exult. Gather around you only two co-workers, yet wherever you go, carry on the task entrusted to you and bring it to completion...
Things follow too slowly upon each other, but the great Queen of Heaven is at hand; the Lord's power is Hers. Like mist She shall scatter Her enemies. She shall vest the Venerable Old Man with all his former garments.
There shall yet come a violent hurricane. Iniquity is at an end, sin shall cease, and before two full moons shall have shone in the month of flowers, the rainbow of peace shall appear on the earth.
The great Minister shall see the Bride of his King clothed in glory.
Throughout the world a sun so bright shall shine as was never seen since the flames of the Cenacle until today, nor shall it be seen again until the end of tim
It is somewhat akin to La Salette: note how both begin with a falling away from the faith in France and a rejuvenation, as well as "peace", arriving from a nation in the North of the continent.
This unidentified country in Northern Europe from which the "warrior/emperor" hails is to be understood as a reference to England according to Emmett's analysis, would that be right?
So without further ado, I gave you the text of Venerable Bartholomew Holzhauser's famous prophecy concerning England from 1646. I am relying on a translation of his Visions by Fr. Thomas Beykirch.
I'd love to hear your thoughts concerning it in relation to Emmett's original blog post:
"...“I stood in the year 1635 by the Danube, giving alms to the banished, and offering up prayers for the whole earth. I stood towards the north and the west, and my heart poured itself out in many lamentations before God, saying; ‘How long will the adversary hold this kingdom in bondage, which swims with the blood of martyrs, spilled by that accursed woman, Jezebel, as she wished to reign in the Church of God?’ And I heard at the same time that the lawful sacrifice would be intermitted for one hundred and twenty years; and on the other side of the sea I saw immense lands, and how peoples and tongues thronged together, and how the land was inwardly shaken by armies, as by an earthquake. The prodigious multitude I saw divided, and I beheld the king standing in the midst. And it was told me, ‘All rests with the king, and the king is, as it were, sold.’
“And towards the west the heavens were opened, and the land trembled as with an earthquake, and the nations were shaken, and terror came over the whole kingdom; and it was told me: ‘On the king depended the salvation of the people! And it seemed to me as if he refused; and I heard: ‘If the king will not, then will he be smitten.’ And the heavens again opened towards the west; and large fiery ball came down, flew oblique, and smote the king. And now his kingdom rested in peace, and the land was illuminated.
“And lo! I saw a ship sailing on the sea, and arrive in port, and righteous and holy men, who were in the ship, landed and they began to preach the Gospel in those countries. They prospered in their undertaking; and that land returned to peace and the sanctification of Jesus Christ...”—Vol. 1. p. 215.
Holzhauser's "Visions" were published in 1646 and read publicly in the presence of the Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand III and Duke Maximilian I, Elector of Bavaria, who were soon to participate in the negotiations of the Peace of Westphalia beginning that year.
Pope Benedict XVI took a notable interest in England during his pontificate. Intriguingly, Benedict is a great fan of Holzhauser.
Venerable Holzhauser actually founded his Order and had its premises in Ratzinger's home- town of Tittmoning, in a building which later became his family home. Rather spooky coincidence I always thought!
Cardinal Nichols gave Benedict a gift related to Holzhauser when he visited England in 2010:
http://www.thepapalvisit.org.uk/Rep...Nichols-Farewell-Address-to-Pope-Benedict-XVI
SPEECH
Archbishop Nichols' Farewell Address to Pope Benedict XVI
19/09/2010 5:30 pm
One of the gifts we wish to present to you is also intensely personal. It concerns the life of seventeenth century Bartholomew Holzhauser. As you know, Holy Father, Fr Holzhauser began his Institute for Secular Clergy in your home- town of Tittmoning, in a building which later became your family home. You speak of this in your own memoires. In the 19th century, interest in Holzhauser revived. He was declared Venerable by your predecessor Leo XIII. This college, St Mary’s Oscott, became imbued with the spirit of Holzhauser when the rector, Henry Parkinson (1896-1924) formed this house in that spirit. He played a major role in founding the Apostolic Union of Secular Clergy, for the mutual support of priests. He also led the students in a translation of the life of Bartholomew Holzhauser. We have prepared a special edition of that text and we hope that it..."
'The unidentified country in Northern Europe.' Why not Ireland? Time yet, God willing, for one more outstanding contribution from the land that did so much to nurture and preserve the faith in post-Roman Europe.
Sorry for the late reply Colin. My computer has been playing up for the past couple of days, freezing when I'm in the middle of writing something. I think it has something to do with Windows 10 - it's a curse!
A lot of very interesting information there that I wasn't aware of! I always thought it was significant that Benedict XVI signed the Apostolic Constitution Anglicanorum Coetibus on the feast of St. Paul of the Cross (who devoted himself to 50 years of prayer for the conversion of England). He called it essentially "prophetic" in character.
It seems to me that the most feasible way for the conversion of England is through the conversion of a reigning Monarch to Catholicism (if they were able to repeal the laws of succession in parliament). And if this happened, then it is very likely that this would fulfil Melanie's portion of the secret of La Salette:
"After all these calamities have arrived, many will recognize the hand of God on them. They will convert, and do penance for their sins.
A great king will go up on the throne, and will reign many years. Religion will re-flourish and spread all over the world, and there will be a great abundance. The world, glad to be lacking nothing, will fall again into disorder, will give up God, and will return to its criminal passions."
And yes, John, according to the prophecy of St. Malachy, it seems that the land of saints and scholars is once again to play some sort of role in the re-evangelisation of Europe, just as it did way back in the early Middle ages. "What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done" (Ecc 1:9). But for that to happen, Ireland first needs to rediscover its own faith.
Hi Emmett,
No worries about that! I am very glad to hear from you and also that you've successfully fixed your software computer fault!
One should also note, in relation to the information I referred to in my last post, that Holzhauser made a point of delivering his Visions to the Elector of Bavaria who resided in a castle in Tittmoning - Ratzinger's future town of birth. He then founded his religious order for priests not only in that town but in a building which became Ratzinger's childhood home. Nearly 400 years later, a man born from that house and town becomes Pope and visits England in 2010, only to receive a special biography of Holzhauser as a gift from an English cardinal!!
You really couldn't make this up.
Are you aware of Holzhauser's personal meeting with King Charles II, the then exiled King of England? This was arranged by the Archbishop-Elector of Mainz, Johann Philipp von Schönborn (- yes, I believe he's a direct ancestor of the present Cardinal Christoph Schonborn, a papabili -). There is an apparent painting of this meeting between the three men:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Holzhauser_und_SchönbornJS.jpg
That's Venerable Bartholomew Holzhauser (left), together with Archbishop Johann Philipp von Schönborn (centre) and King Charles II of England (right). Contemporary painting.
This episode is referred to in the biography of Holzhauser that Cardinal Nichols gifted to Pope Benedict, as follows:
"...After passing ten devoted years of the ministry at Leoggenthal, where he had achieved immense good, Holzhauser received an invitation from the Elector, John (Beykirch, p. 129) Philip von Schonborn, Archbishop of Mayence, to settle in his dominions. The latter bestowed on him the rectory of Bingen, while the priests of “the Institute” were entrusted with the direction of the seminary of Wurzburg. Holzhauser won the esteem and confidence of the Elector to such a degree, that the latter took the greatest pleasure in his society, and consulted him on matters of the greatest secrecy and importance. Shortly after his arrival at Bingen, Holzhauser had an interview with our King, Charles II., then an exile, but hoping speedily to be recalled to the throne of his ancestors. Let us hear the account given of this interview by German biographer.
“This favourable opinion of Holzhauser, the Elector evinced by a continual praise of his conduct and virtues. As on one occasion, Charles II., King of England, who was still in banishment, but entertained the hope of speedily returning to England, descended the Rhine in company of the Elector, as far a Geisenheim in the Rheingau, and there passed the night with his guest, the latter took occasion to mention the name of Holzhauser. The King took occasion to mention the name of Holzhauser. The King learned from the Elector, that a priest was living in the neighborhood, who a long time ago had foretold wonderful things of the English kingdom and English king. The King expressed so much desire to see this priest immediately, that he was fetched from Bingen late in the evening, and after incurring no little danger from a storm which had suddenly arisen while he was on the Rhine, he arrived at Geisenheim at about twelve o’clock at night. Having been introduced to Charles II., and questioned about his vision in regard to the kingdom of England, and the destinies which had befallen her king, Holzhauser replied on these several points to the monarch. He recommended to his Majesty’s protection the Catholic religion, and the priests who were laboring in England in its behalf. The monarch gave him his hand, and promised to be mindful of his request.
“It is astonishing with what a burning zeal Holzhauser labored to bring about the conversion of England. This was the marrow of his thoughts—the subject of his conversation—the sum of all his desires; with his blood would he fain have washed away, had he been so permitted, all the errors of heresy. no resolution was so fixedly implanted in him, as to go to England and there, utterly regardless of any risk he might run for his life, make a beginning towards a restoration of the Catholic faith. He awaited only the Elector’s permission to prosecute this voyage. This permission he would have sought with earnest prayers, had he not been overcome by the still more urgent solicitations of his friends, Gundel and Vogt, and been induced to defer for one or several years the execution of a project, which he never would entirely give up, in order (Beykirch, p. 130) in the first place by his presence to consolidate his rising Institute, until such time as his presence might be mere easily dispensed with. It was with difficulty he could be held back from this project.” [Holzhauser’s Life, p. 69.]
But this holy man, so burning with love for the kingdom of heaven, it now pleased the Almighty to call to Himself. At the moment when new prospects seemed to open to his indefatigable zeal, and his Institute [This institute was approved by the Holy See.] was taking root and spreading in new dioceses, he was summoned to receive the reward of his many virtues..."
When Prince William ascends the throne of the UK one day - and Canada, Australia etc. - he will be the first British monarch for centuries to be a direct descendant again of the House of Stuart and King Charles II through his mother Diana:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descendants_of_Charles_II_of_England#Charles_II_Line_of_Descent_to_Prince_William_and_Prince_Harry
"...Charles II Line of Descent to Prince William and Prince Harry
It was a well-known fact that Lady Diana Spencer (later the Princess of Wales) was a direct descendant of Charles II, through two of his illegitimate sons. Diana married The Prince of Wales in 1981 and had two sons, Prince William, Duke of Cambridge and Prince Harry. Currently, the Duke is 2nd in the line of Succession, his son and daughter, Prince George and Princess Charlotte, are 3rd and 4th, and Prince Harry is 5th in line. If any of them succeed to the British throne, they will be the first descendants of Charles II of England to accede to the throne. The following list details the line of descent from Charles II of England to Princes William and Harry..."
So Prince William, Duke of Cambridge is his progeny - so to speak.
Could be coincidental as well but just wanted to flag it up in response to the interesting theory you cite above.
Whats interesting is that in his Vision of the Conversion of England, Holzhauser predicted that the Eucharistic sacrifice - the mass - would be outlawed in the British Isles for 120 years. It was indeed - Cromwell, the Republican dictator who ousted Charles I from his throne and beheaded him, as well as ceiling his son Charles II, did indeed ban this under his military rule. (This same Cromwell occupied and slaughtered tens of thousands in Confederate Ireland, starting the Protestant Ascendancy in 1649 with the forced expropriation of Gaelic Irish owned land). The mass was only permitted again in 1778 when the British relaxed the penal laws with the Catholic Relief Acts.
So the point I am making is that Holzhauser was fully aware that Charles II would fail to Catholicize England when he regained the throne from Cromwell's son Richard in 1660 and restores the Stuart Monarchy (although Charles II did convert to Catholicism on his deathbed and married a Catholic Queen) - and yet he was still desperate to meet him in person.
Why?
Some of the ground work for the restoration of the catholic faith in England is starting to bear fruit now with the ecumenical movement in England especially between the Catholic and Anglican churches. I meet many Anglicans and I am amazed at their warmth towards Catholics.
God Bless
Anthony
malachi martin info
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4116272/Catholic-priest-inspired-Exorcist-died-fall-possessed-child-spoke-pushed-invisible-force-CIA-agent-claims.html
interesting
Venerable Holzhauser cautioned in one of his prophecies that,
"...the empire of this monarch that I had seen standing on the sea and on the earth, that is to say, the supreme president, the guardian and protector of that empire, and the propagation of the true faith on earth will not be obtained without noise and without storm...".
Without 'noise' and 'without storm' - the minor tribulation I suspect?
Interesting also how Holzhauser refers to the Great Monarch as supreme "praesidēns". This Latin word - and Emmett can perhaps correct me if I am wrong - means "presiding over; president, leader" is the ultimate source, from the verb, of the word president via Middle English from French président.
The verb from prae (before) and sedeō (sit) meant literally 'to sit before' as in presiding as the head of a body or gathering.
To me, this is a strange way to prophesise the coming of an emperor from the perspective of a seventeenth century mystic. It appear a to suggest that the Monarch's rule will be deliberative and that he will act in convert with some kind of - elective - body or assemblage of which he will preside as leader.
Would a constitutional monarch as in Britain be able to fulfil such a role - one that is "presidential" and has real executive power but also checked by some kind of wider assemblage?
Emmett, I am also interested to hear your response to the following recent reply from an apologist priest, Fr. Grondin, who works for Catholic Answers, to a question about the "secrets" of La Salette:
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=1037818
"Jan 13, '17, 11:21 am
Fr. Charles Grondin,
Apologist
Re: Alleged Secrets of La Salette
A secret was given to each Melanie and Maximin they never made their individual secret known to each other. The secrets were sent by them in 1851 to Pius IX.
Maximin's secret was never claimed to have been published (until recently).
Melanie's secret was supposedly published in 1879. However, it was greatly controversial and hotly debated whether the secret was the same as the original given to Pius XI. Given that many of the defenders of the 1879 account were censured by their local Bishops and Rome did not intervene it is generally considered that the 1879 account is not accurate.
The so-called discovery of the original secrets in the Vatican Archives has not, to my knowledge, ever been authenticated by any Vatican official and therefore should be treated with some skepticism.
Secondly, any secret revealed to Melanie and Maximin were private revelations given to them as individuals and not necessarily messages to the world. This would appear to be even more so given that no Pope has ever seen it appropriate to publish them."
The CAF apologists are trained theologians and they are normally very thorough.
It would appear from the good father's analysis that the alleged 'discovery' and publication of the alleged original text of the secrets by the French scholars Laurentin and Corteville in 2002 was done without the authorization of the Holy See.
As such, we cannot rely upon their testimony of the authenticity of the manuscripts that they claim to have found in the Vatican Archives. Unlike with Fatima, where the Secrets were approved and expressly published by the Church, it would appear that the only officially 'approved' element of the La Salette apparition is the public messages bequeathed to Maximin and Melanie with respect to penitence, potato famine and so on.
For that reason, I am unsure if we should be relying on texts that they have not been published by the Vatican with the signature of the Holy Father, giving his apostolic blessing so to speak.
I would greatly welcome your thoughts on this matter,
All the best,
Colin
I think anyone who thinks Putin is a "Christian" leader is ignoring his record. He has committed war-crimes in Georgia and Ukraine, and Ukraine (or Poland; calling the Polish government fascist? Or that Poland started the Second World War?!? Lololol) is far from being led by Neo-Nazis, lol. I'd like to see some evidence of that inflammatory claim. In the last election any party that was Neo-Nazi/fascist in Ukraine got absolutely trounced. As far as the leader of Ukraine that was ousted, he well deserved it after the way he looted the Ukrainian people's money out of the treasury for his own enrichment.
If any country is Neo-Nazi or fascist in the way it is being ruled, it is Russia, more accurately, as a kleptocracy. When the CCCP fell, it was all KGB-men, or fronts for the KGB, that gobbled up former state-owned enterprises at bargain-basement rates with no-bid deals; all the oligarchs worth billions are all former KGB. There is a saying in Russia, once a KGB-man, always a KGB-man, and Putin and everyone of his top deputies are all former KGB.
Gorbachev was quoted by more than one direct participant at meetings that, with the realization that Russia could never hope to compete against the NATO countries that were pulling far away in the race regarding economic development, Gorbachev said that the only way the CCCP could win was to "hug Europe to death", i.e. get them so hooked on Russia's energy resources that they could no longer do without them.
To a large extent, this has happened. Putin violated the treaty with Ukraine under which Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons under the guarantee that Russia would respect Ukraine's territorial integrity, a deal that the UK and America guaranteed. And despite Mr./Mrs. Anonymous' claims, Catholics are indeed persecuted under Putin's regime. So are any people that show the least bit of dissent, including many high profile journalists who have been assassinated when investigating Putin's finances and links to the Russian mob.
No, Putin is a far cry from a Christian in any of his undertakings. He has made no secret of wanting Russia to take over all of the USSRs former satellite states, including Ukraine and the three Baltic republics. The people of Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia deserve as much right to self-determination that any of us do, but Putin is angling to take that away from them. He is a monster, and is attempting an alliance of fellow oligarchs/kleptocrats in the West right now. He knows that Russia's window for achieving his geopolitical goals is very short. The Russia economy is now smaller than Canada's, and Russia's demographics show that is another 20 years they won't have the manpower to field anything close to the size of the military is has now.
If Putin and his cronies are to achieve a Greater Russia encompassing Russian-language speaking minorities in neighbouring sovereign nations, they must strike relatively quickly before the giant plummet in Russia's population begins in earnest. A sneak attack by Russia aligning itself with some Islamic super-state, or alliance of Islamic nations with Turkey at the helm aligns exactly with Catholic prophecy on this matter. For those who believe that Putin is some sort of savior of Christianity, you are not looking very closely at his record I'm afraid.
That was a very good write-up Jason R., thank you and I agree with everything you say!
Jason R., you lie when you say that Puin is a war criminal. Quite parroting the Neocon talking points: they are old and boring. In fact, everything you said about Putin is a lie from the father of lies. Everything you say about Putin actually applies to the Western warmongers, beginning with Barack Obama. It is the West's elites who are shameless warmongers, murderers, theives, sexual degenerates, and anti-christians to a a degree that would make Nero blush. The organized effort to demonize Putin is a classic form psychological projection. When you look at Putin's record independent of the Neocon propaganda, you will see that he is indeed a defender of Christianity in the mold of the Great Monarch. Many in the West are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome: they have been living under Neocon oppression for so long that they have now submitted and willingly parrot the Goebbelsian talking points on Putin.
Colin, I was just nearly finished posting a long response to your question on the secrets of La Salette when my computer froze again. Very frustrating... In a nutshell, I think it would be very difficult to separate the secrets from the public message. They had been transmitted to Pius IX in July 1851, before he approved public devotion to Our Lady of La Salette later the same year on Sept 19th, when he specifically referred to the messages of the apparitions as “secrets”. They are arguably the most important aspect of these apparitions. The recent apparent climbdown by some Church authorities appears to be related to certain problematic elements contained within the secrets (which I believe can be explained). But this has not been done in an official capacity. To reject the secrets is basically to reject the apparitions as a whole.
Hi Emmett,
Many thanks for your reply! (And very sorry to hear you have been getting browser problems again!)
I certainly understand your point about the difficulty of dis-aggregating the 'secrets' from the public message but can we trust that these two French scholars have actually uncovered the 'real' secrets of La Salette when this has not been authorized by the Vatican?
We are relying on their testimony, after all and it hasn't been done with the approval of the hierarchy.
I also have some concerns about the fact that Melanie and Maximin were never even declared Servants of God - apparently, they did not live quite so stellar lives following the apparition and Melanie started to make up grandiose, anticlerical claims that conflicted with her earlier accounts.
All the best,
Colin
The secrets discovered by Fr. Michel Corteville in the Vatican secret archives are undoubtedly authentic. The other priest is Fr. Rene Laurentin - a world reknowned Mariologist. The only reason they are being called into question is a few apparent anomalies which haven't been adequately explained, such as the references to a 100 year period supposed linked to the coming of the Antichrist, and also to the turn of the millennium. My next blog post will detail a very good reason to explain the 100 year period mentioned by Melanie.
I've already written some explanations for the reference to the turn of the millennium. See the following blog posts:
http://unveilingtheapocalypse.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/our-lady-of-la-salette.html
http://unveilingtheapocalypse.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/prophecies-of-la-salette-and-turn-of.html
I also held Melanie in a suspect light at one point, and had just finished writing a critical piece on her for the first version of my book when I learned of a bus crash in La Salette which killed around 26 pilgrims. This deeply unsettled me, and caused me to revise my opinion on her.
Hi again Emmett,
I'm really looking forward to your next post. I will read it with great interest.
There is just something about La Salette - I think its the subsequent activity of the visionaries - that unsettles me. If Melanie had turned out like St. Bernadette or Sister Lucia, I would have little reason to question. I'm aware that Balaam of Beor was a genuine prophet despite leading a less than saintly life but I do struggle with La Salette and I doubt I'm the only one.
Melanie doesn't seem to have been obedient to the magisterium. Humility before the successor to the Apostles is ultimately the most important criterion for me in terms of accepting private revelations.
I would like to see more proof, however, that Fr. Corteville and Laurentin did uncover the original secret and if so understand why the Vatican has not officially sanctioned it with commentary as it did the third secret of Fatima.
You see, if a person is declared "Venerable" it means in addition to a recognition of heroic virtues that their writings have been extensively researched during the canonical process and nothing contrary to Faith or moral has been found. This has not been done for Melanie or Maximin.
For that reason, I remain somewhat sceptical about the secrets as opposed to the public messages officially sanctioned. We do know that Melanie fabricated things later on and actually had to be censored.
That doesn't mean her origin secret - if it really be her original secret - wasn't a genuine private revelation but the integrity of the visionary is important and does lead me to have some questions, exactly, as to how to differentiate between truth and figments of her own imagination.
All the best
Colin
BTW on Fr. Laurentin in particular - not doubting his credentials but I should note that he is a controversial figure in scholarly Catholic circles for his long standing support for Medjuogorje (which I, like many others, regard as a fake apparition) and apparent "editing" of some of the messages so as to soften the potentially heretical aspects.
So I'm not sure his involvement assuages my scepticism about La Salette. The Secrets do fit with John Bosco whose prophecies are legit, but I remain unsure but open minded.
Fr. Grondin on CAF was firmly in the sceptical camp. I would personally like to see evidence of a high profile authority in the Church backing Laurentin's account of the original secrets.
On a slightly lighter topic, has anyone ever visited Strasbourg Cathedral?
There is a stunning window in the Chancel above the altar that was donated to the cathedral by the Council of Europe in the 1950s, to replace the old window damaged by the War and Nazi occupation.
It depicts the Blessed Virgin as the Woman of the Apocalypse crowned with the European flag as the crown of twelve stars and it left a deep impression on me. May we hope it could be a sign of the eventual triumph of her immaculate heart in Europe?
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Virgen_estrasburgo_UE.jpg[/IMG]
It's the first time I've heard of Corteville and Laurentin being accused of potentially fabricating the 1851 secrets. If you were going to make something up though, why include the problematic elements, such as the seemingly erroneous dates? Also, it should be fairly easy to ascertain for anyone familiar with caliography, since the original handwritten letters containing the secrets were also published. I don't have the resources to do this myself, since I don't have access to any of the seers' other writings. But for anyone who does, that side of it should be a pinch. To me, judging by the content, style and tone, along with the manner in which they were found in the Vatican archives (were I assume they had to remain at all times, and were filed and recorded there), all attest that they are the authentic 1851 secrets. And of course, Pius IX had these in his possession when he gave his approval in Sept 1851.
Hi Emmett,
I wasn't accusing them of making it up, so to speak, I'm only questioning if the manuscripts they used were the "originals". I don't think one would go to the lengths of fabricating the whole thing but on the other hand, we're relying on their testimony alone.
I'm sure they did use actual manuscripts but the problem is that there are so many manuscripts circling claiming to be Melanie's original secret that you never can be entirely sure, especially since the Vatican did not - to my knowledge - authorize the publication of any alleged original secrets. There may have been more than one version kept - I mean, the "Melanist" scandal with her followers dragged on till the 1922 papal ban on discussing the Secrets.
I'm just a tad sceptical for that reason, as is Fr. Grondin clearly.
I have never heard the discovery of the Secrets corroborated by the testimony of anyone other than Fr. Laurentin and Cortrville.
It's not like a widely known fact among academics that numerous books and peer-reviewed articles comment upon - its only their book.
And given Laurentin's somewhat dodgy handling of Medjugorje, that doesn't find me with absolute confidence. He did "edit" the messages in an attempt to make them more Orthodox - that is not a slander against him, only a truth which one can check for oneself.
Here's an example from "CatholicDoors":
http://www.catholicdoors.com/isit/isit10.htm
"...The Marian theologian Rene Laurentin behaves in the same manner. He came to visit me around Christmas 1983, and I offebrown him dinner. When he asked me why I did not believe in the apparitions, I told him that according to the diary of Vicka and the words of the other 'seers' this 'Lady' has been speaking against the bishop. Laurentin quickly responded: 'Don't publish that, because there are so many pilgrims and converts here.' I was scandalized by this statement of this well-known Mariologist! Unfortunately this has remained Laurentin's position: to hide the truth and defend falsehoods. He has written around ten books on the topic of Medjugorje, and in almost all of them, the truth and Bishop Zanic are under fire. He knows well what people like to hear. Therefore, it was relatively easy for him to find those who would believe him. 'A veritate quidam auditum avertent, ad fabulas autem convertentur' -- 'They will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths' (2 Tim. 4:4). The 'seers' and defenders of Medjugorje led by Laurentin from the very outset have seen that the modern believer in a communist country very quickly believes in something 'miraculous,' in apparent miraculous healings and apparent messages from 'Our Lady.'"
3. "The main players on which Medjugorje rests are retibrown Archbishop F. Franic, R. Laurentin, L. Rupcic OFM, Amorth, Rastelli S.J., and some Franciscans and charismatics from all over the world. Many books have been quickly published, as well as articles, brochures, films, and souvenirs. There are tourist agencies, pilgrimages, 600,000 copies of prayerbooks (written by two Franciscans, Vego and Prusina, who were thrown out of their Order) published in many languages, fanatical prayer groups that are inspibrown by the apparent messages of Our Lady, and finally there is the greatest motivator of all -- money. No one even mentions that which throws doubt on the 'apparitions.' The bishop has been warning everyone, but the 'machinery' has been working overtime."
4. "Fifty miraculous healings have been mentioned, then 150, 200, 300, and so on. Laurentin chose 56 dossiers and sent them to the 'Bureau medical de Lourdes.'...."
BTW Emmett, the Secrets as given by Fr. Corteville in his 1999 thesis may be entirely legitimate. I honestly don't know - I just desire more proof.
Another query I have about La Salette - the secret of La Salette does not situate the Antichrist's persecutions immediately before the end of the world. The monster will disturb the peace, Maximin writes to Pius IX (version 1): He will be choked by the breath of St. Michael writes Melanie (version 8).
About 1900, Melanie entrusted to abbot Combe the basic principles of her second secret of the end of time, (above 70). She presents the broad outline of them to Miss Vernet and this is quoted in that 2002 book by Fr. Laurentin and Fr. Corteville:
"...There will only be true peace on earth after the death of the Antichrist. Two or three periods of peace before the Antichrist will be of short duration, a peace after a war, and although I wish this war does not arrive, it will be terrible, terrible, then the short peace ; during all this time, I did not see a king on the throne of France. That does not mean anything, if France returned to God, God could raise her and give her a very Christian king; Ninive was condemned to perish and because it made penitence, it was forgiven. After the Antichrist, who will fall body and soul into hell, the ground opening in the presence of the thousands of spectators coming from all the parts of the world to be witness to his exaltation (as he had announced) and entrance to heaven; all will convert, glorifying the single God of heaven and earth, the Gospel of Jesus-Christ will be preached in all his purity on all the earth. The Churches will be re-established (réouvertes), the kings will be the right hand of the Holy See, there will be one Sheperd and only one herd, charity will reign in all peoples hearts. The world will still last centuries, then charity will grow cold, more and more also the earth will refuse to give its fruits..."
Personally, I don't really like the placing of the last Era of Peace after the advent of Antichrist. It is not how the Fathers or most church authorities understood it.
The above info, I should note, was taken from the Conclusions of the chapter entitled Les Secrets (the secrets) in that Corteville/Laurentin book,from the section B. "End of Time?"
The authors expressly state: "The secret of La Salette does not situate the Antichrist's persecutions immediately before the end of the world," before going on to quote the information I have above and Melanie's expectation of three peaces.
Interestingly, one could relate her first short peace following a terrible war to the 1918-1939 period after WW1. Her next "short peace" could thus be the peace we are living in right now after WW2.
She saw no "king" during these periods.
Thanks for sharing that Colin. That certainly suggests Melanie's later works were tainted by her own personal opinions (which I always suspected anyway). There was a patristic idea of a "refreshment of the saints" after the coming of the Antichrist, but this was only thought to last for a period of 45 days before the Second Coming of Christ, as per the discrepancy in Daniel's prophecies of the 1,290 and 1,335 days. Even this was just speculation open to question though.
Most likely glaring millenarian errors such as these was one of the reasons that her later revisions were placed on the Index. It is hard to disentangle what may be fact or fiction in these later works, and I think they should be largely discounted.
We should not allow this to detract from the authenticity of the original approved apparitions and 1851 versions of the secrets though, which of course should be considered separately. You can view close-up photostats of the 1851 secrets in their original handwriting, countersigned by witnesses and dated to July 1851, together with the envelopes they were sent in on the following website:
http://www.sspxasia.com/Newsletters/2003/Jul-Dec/Secret_of_La_Salette.htm
Of course the secrets themselves would never been allowed to be taken out of the archives or tampered with in any way, and would be filed and recorded there. Bar being granted access to the archives themselves, the photostats are all we have to go on. Personally, I am convinced of their authenticity, and that the approval originally given by Pius IX in Sept 1851 covered all aspects of the apparitions, including the secrets, up to that date. Anything after can be set aside...
Hi Emmett,
I have seen the facsimiles on that SSPX website before and in the actual book - but we essentially have to take Laurentin and Corteville's testimony.
Laurentin - I don't know, I'm unsure of him. He's been shifty with the facts in the past over Megjugorje. Corteville - I must admit to knowing nothing about him.
You see, the Vatican once denied that the La Salette secrets were still in the archives. Indeed in July 1915 Cardinal de Cabrieres who believed in the authenticity of the apparitions stated that the secret was said to be no longer at the Vatican. (Le Hidec “Les Secrets de La Salette” p164-167).
It's all rather "hush, hush" if you ask me - but I trust the Church over Laurentin. If they didn't want the Secrets published, they must have a good reason IMHO and as you say we have no way of definitively knowing if these manuscripts are indeed the original secrets and not some later fabrication unless other scholars actually went to the Archives and authenticated them - and as we know, Melanie and Maximin had a habit of being fantastical as the years went by, so if these documents are even slightly later in origin - who knows??
When asked about his secret, Maximum once told a reporter that it predicted a "great fortune" for him....*ahem*...
I'm not quite sure what happened to those kids once they grew up but St. Bernadette Soubirous they were not........
Consider also an article published by Jimmy Akin, the CAF apologist, in 2016:
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/la-salette-sorting-fact-from-fiction
La Salette: Sorting Fact From Fiction
...
"...First, a little background. The apparition of Our Lady of La Salette occurred in 1846. The visionaries were two children in France named Maximin Giraud and Melanie Calvat. The local bishop approved the apparition in 1851, and that same year the two children were persuaded to write down information the Virgin Mary had given them. The question of what these "secrets" contained was on many people’s minds, and the children were relentlessly pestered to reveal the information. It was not until 1851, when they were asked to write down the secrets so that they could be given to the pope, that they complied.
Afterwards, Maximin never revealed his secret. He is reported to have claimed that Mary told him that he would become a millionaire, that the Antichrist would slay him, and that the next pope would be French. None of those things happened, and scholars generally conclude that they were stories Maximin made up in an attempt to stop people from pestering him about the secret. When texts alleging to be Maximin’s secret began to appear in the press (some of which are demonstrably false), the frustrated seer refused to either confirm or deny that they were his, saying it was the pope’s responsibility to decide whether the secret should be revealed.
Melanie’s story is different. Over the years she apparently did begin revealing pieces of her secret to others, and in 1879 she published the whole thing...."
So, we can dispense with Charlie Johnston now.
I came through Medjegorje experiences. Although I now have my doubts based on the image of Our Lady and the incident of eye poking reaction from a visionary I did see the sun spinning and colours leaving the circumference after a reversion confession outside Medjegorje Parish Church during an alleged apparition. I saw the host-like white disc in front of the sun which turned red. I continued to see this for many weeks back in the UK. I then stopped looking realising that our Lord is truly present in the Eucharist and that is enough. Only this occurred again some months later on a bus back from Aylesford in Kent after seeing a Ivan at a church giving a talk did the party on our bus all see the sun and the host in front of it also witnessed by Jesuit priest (Fr Claudio Rossi RIP) who told us to carry on with the Rosary. I also had a profound reversion and what seems to me a closeness to Mary which has stayed with me so I am perplexed about these experiences. Blessedly I realised that I must stay close to the bosom of the Church until she makes Her judgement which seemingly may be negative, meanwhile I will have to live with these experiences and grow closer to Jesus and Mary through the Church and maybe one day the mystery of my reversion may make sense. Any rejection of Medjegorje reminds me of the dramatic months back into the Church. I am grateful for those graces even though it may be they are a peculiar mix of genuine and I dare not say.
I feel sorry for Charlie Johnston. I believe he is a sincere fellow Catholic, but he appears to have been deluded in some respects, confusing some of his interior reflections with private revelations. Please pray for him. He needs our prayers, not derision.
Paul Luke. It's great that you have accepted the Catholic faith. However, you should be careful not root your beliefs solely in private revelations (especially unapproved ones), but rather in Scripture and Tradition. Visual phenomena alone is not proof of the supernatural, and may be caused by other phenomena (perhaps preternatural). Proof of supernatural activity rests on other criteria, beyond the power of demons, such as miraculous healings. You would be wise to distance your faith from your experiences in Medjugorje.
Paul luke,
Interesting you mentioned Fr Claudio Rossi SJ. He was my parish priest when I studied at Bristol University in the early 1990's. Did you know of his death? He was visiting his home town in Italy with his mother and they prayed the rosary together outside by a little grotto to Our Lady, just after they finished (it was the feast if the Visition if I remember correctly), the ground gave way and he fell down a thirty ft well and died. I think that was about 2003.
May he rest in peace!
Stephen Walford
SpiritDaily links to this post, which has some decent content in regards to summarizing where things stand:
https://dsdoconnor.com/2017/01/24/aligning-our-expectations-with-the-prophetic-consensus/
Unfortunately:
> Because sadly, what we are left with today is a batch of (certain) lay authors and career lay apologists scrambling to be recognized as the ultimate authority on eschatology; people who seem to think that unveiling what is coming is a massive jigsaw puzzle..[snip]..I would like to simply lay down clearly where I stand. (And encourage you to read those who are trustworthy on this issue; including, for example, Fr. Iannuzzi and Mark Mallett.)
> When someone comes along with messages of his own that seem to stand in contrast to what the majority of trustworthy private revelation is saying, do not put too much stock in these predictions...[snip]..Instead, sit like a (wise and discerning!) child at the feet of those special souls whom God has chosen as His messengers for this day, and shut up and listen.
> If you’re looking for trustworthy voices online in the wake of so much confusion, allow me to suggest: Mark Mallett...Fr. Joseph Iannuzzi...[snip]
So the author (Daniel O’Connor) in that post and elsewhere (MOG thread) attacks those who use only Church-approved private revelations and then turns around and tells the general public to "shut up [!] and sit like a child at the feet" of his own approved list of non-Church approved "voices." Wow.
I felt compelled to call out such deeply flawed logic because SpiritDaily is so widely read.
So the suggestion of the above author is to shut ourselves up and listen to his approved folks and not study approved private sources. Nor is he following his own mandate to "shut up," because he is carrying around quite a megaphone himself.
Mark L.
I regret posting that (pretty quick remorse!). Because in continuing to read that old MOG thread I realize that nothing will change with anyone's position, so I think all I did was risk opening old wounds needlessly. Hopefully my post will just get buried and not incite anything.
Mark L.
Mark Mallett is certainly worth reading. But there are three prophecies that all Catholics should read up on and they are Fatima, Akita and our Lady of Good Success. And they are all church approved. Other unapproved private revelation may be worthy of belief but they need to be treated with scepticism. Look at how many have been shown to be untrue such as Locutions to the World or the Charlie Johnston prophecy. Remember after Our Lady appeared at Lourdes there were a dozen or more false apparitions. We already have so many approved apparitions do we really need any more?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-02/iran-just-officially-ditched-dollar
This is what got sadaam killed . Muammar al-Qaddafi tried to with a gold dinar.. dead!!
I give it a month or two and we or Israel are hitting iran
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