Wednesday, 23 May 2012

St. John Bosco's Prophecy of the Turn of the Millennium




I am currently attempting to find the original source of a prophecy attributed to St. John Bosco concerning the turn of the millennium, which is apparently related to his Dream of the Two Pillars. The prophecy seems to be genuine enough, having been quoted in Ted and Maureen Flynn's book Thunder of Justice (A213), and also appears to be connected to Don Bosco's prophetic dream "March of the 200 Days". I don't have St. John Bosco's Biographical Memoirs to hand to be able to pinpoint the exact source, but will update this post when I eventually find it. The prophecy in question directly refers to the turn of the millennium as a prophetic turning point after a period of chaos in the Church (the Great Apostasy), following an Ecumenical Council in the 20th century (Vatican II):

"There will be an Ecumenical Council in the next century, after which there will be chaos in the Church. Tranquility will not return until the Pope succeeds in anchoring the boat of Peter between the twin pillars of Eucharistic Devotion and Devotion to Our Lady. This will come about one year before the end of the century."


The above prediction is similar in many respects to the various prophecies of the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and again can be used to bolster the hypothesis I forward in Unveiling the Apocalypse - that the eschatological Fall of Satan foretold in the Book of Revelation occurred at the turn of the millennium, which coincided with the eschatological astronomical phenomena described at the opening of the sixth seal. This in turn heralds not only the sealing of the saints in heaven, but also the fulfilment of the prophecy of the mark of the Beast on earth, and the moment when Satan transfers his power and authority to the Antichrist.

As we shall see, the above prophecy appears to be directly related to Don Bosco's March of the 200 Days, which can be found in volume X of the Biographical Memoirs pp49-59. The dream of the March of 200 Days is set among a section of the memoirs containing three prophecies, the first of which is connected to St. Dominic Savio's vision of the Pope and the conversion of England:


...there will come a great warrior from the North carrying a banner and on the right hand that supports it is written: "The Irresistible Hand of the Lord." At that very moment there went out to meet him the Venerable Old Man of Lazio, holding aloft a brilliantly glowing torch. The banner then increased in size and turned from black to snow-white. In the middle of the banner, in letters of gold, there was written the name of Him who is able to do all things. The warrior with his men bowed and shook hands with the Venerable Old Man.
(You can find the full text of the three prophecies here).


This vision of St. John Bosco appears to be related to the prophecies of the Angelic Pope and the Great Monarch, which as I suggest in the book, is directly connected to the Two Witnesses of Rev 11 - the two figures symbolised by the two pillars in his prophetic dream.
We can see the similarities between the above prophecy and that of St. Dominic Savio below, where like the "Venerable Old Man of Lazio" (who represents the Pope), the pontiff holds aloft a flaming torch to enlighten a nation residing in spiritual darkness:

One morning as I was making my thanksgiving after Communion, a very strong distraction took hold of me. I thought I saw a great plain full of people enveloped in thick fog. They were walking about like people who had lost their way and did not know which way to turn. Someone near me said: ‘This is England’. I was just going to ask some questions, when I saw Pope Pius IX just like I have seen him in pictures. He was robed magnificently and carried in his hand a torch alive with flames. As he walked slowly toward that immense gathering of people, the leaping flames from the torch dispelled the fog, and the people stood in the splendour of the noonday sun. ‘That torch’, said the one beside me, ‘is the Catholic Faith, which is going to light up England.’”


The conversion of England is foretold in many prophecies to inaugurate the beginning of the Second Pentecost - including those of the 1846 version of La Salette, and of St. Malachy. So St. Dominic Savio's vision here is clearly associated with the new springtime envisioned by Bl. John Paul II and Bl. John Henry Newman.
The first prophecy of St. John Bosco then continues with the theme of the Second Pentecost:


Things follow too slowly upon each other, but the great Queen of Heaven is at hand; the Lord's power is Hers. Like mist She shall scatter Her enemies. She shall vest the Venerable Old Man with all his former garments. There shall yet come a violent hurricane. Iniquity is at an end, sin shall cease, and before two full moons shall have shone in the month of flowers, the rainbow of peace shall appear on the earth. The great Minister shall see the Bride of his King clothed in glory. Throughout the world a sun so bright shall shine as was never seen since the flames of the Cenacle until today, nor shall it be seen again until the end of time...

Note the mention here of "two full moons" shining "in the month of flowers", as it becomes important later.
The theme of the Second Pentecost is continued in the second prophecy, concerning the 200 day march, which as well as being directly associated with the Dream of Two Pillars, also contains imagery strongly reminiscent of the Third Secret of Fatima:


It was a dark night, and men could no longer find their way back to their own countries. Suddenly a most brilliant light shone in the sky, illuminating their way as at high noon. At that moment from the Vatican came forth, as in procession, a multitude of men and women, young children, monks, nuns, and priests, and at their head was the Pope.
But a furious storm broke out, somewhat dimming that light, as if light and darkness were locked in battle. Meanwhile the long procession reached a small square littered with dead and wounded, many of whom cried for help.
The ranks of the procession thinned considerably. After a two-hundred day march, all realized that they were no longer in Rome. In dismay they swarmed about the Pontiff to protect him and minister to him in his needs.
At that moment two angels appeared, bearing a banner which they presented to the Supreme Pontiff, saying: "Take the banner of Her who battles and routs the most powerful armies on earth. Your enemies have vanished: with tears and sighs your children plead for your return."
One side of the banner bore the inscription: Regina sine labe concepta [Queen conceived without sin], and the other side read: Auxilium Christianorum [Help of Christians].
The Pontiff accepted the banner gladly, but he became distressed to see how few were his followers.
But the two angels went on: "Go now, comfort your children. Write to your brothers scattered throughout the world that men must reform their lives. This cannot be achieved unless the bread of the Divine Word is broken among the peoples. Teach children their catechism and preach detachment from earthly things. The time has come," the two angels concluded, "when the poor will evangelize the world. Priests shall be sought among those who wield the hoe, the spade, and the hammer, as David prophesied: 'God lifted the poor man from the fields to place him on the throne of His people.'"
On hearing this, the Pontiff moved on, and the ranks began to swell. Upon reaching the Holy City, the Pontiff wept at the sight of its desolate citizens, for many of them were no longer. He then entered St. Peter's and intoned the Te Deum, to which a chorus of angels responded, singing: Gloria in excelsis Deo et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis. When the song was over, all darkness vanished and a blazing sun shone. The population had declined greatly in the cities and in the countryside; the land was mangled as if by a hurricane and hailstorm, and people sought each other, deeply moved, and saying: Est Deus in Israel [There is a God in Israel].
From the start of the exile until the intoning of the Te Deum, the sun rose 200 times. All the events described covered a period of 400 days.


The two angels in this vision are highly reminiscent of the two angels described in the Third Secret, which we have previously identified as symbolising the Two Witnesses of Rev 11 - who spearhead the religious renewal towards the end of the world. And like the two pillars in St. John Bosco's dream, the angels bear banners containing Latin inscriptions. The vision of the pope weeping at the sight of the city's "desolate citizens, for many of them were no longer" is also similar to the secrets of Fatima . Compare this with the words of the Third Secret below:


"...before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way..."


Fr Frank Klauder forwards an interesting possible interpretation of the March of 200 days, which also gives a date relating to the turn of the millennium. I will quote the relevant material below:


1. The four hundred "days" refer to four hundred months, or thirty-three-and-a-third years;

2. The two hundred "days" refer to sixteen and a half years;

3. The first "brilliant light" before the beginning of the procession or march refers to Vatican Council II, which ended in 1965;

4. The "furious storm" that broke out refers to the controversies that arose after the council;

5. The end of the first two hundred "days" or sixteen-and-a-half years, brings us to 1982, when the Pope visited Fatima, one year after the attempted assassination on his life. At that time, speaking, in the third person the Pope said:

"Today John Paul II reads the message of Fatima again, with trepidation in his heart, because he sees how many people and societies-how many Christians have gone in the opposite direction to the one indicated in the message of Fatima. Sin has made itself firmly at home in the world, and the denial of God has become widespread in the ideologies, ideas, and plans of human beings."

Before concluding his talk, the Pope recited a prayer, called "apocalyptic" by the New York Times, as follows:

"From famine and war, deliver us.

From nuclear war, from incalculable self-destruction, from every kind of war, deliver us.

From sins against the life of man from its very beginning, deliver us.
From hatred and from the demeaning of the dignity of the children of God, deliver us.

From every kind of injustice in the life of society, both national and international, deliver us.

From readiness to trample on the commandments of God, deliver us.
From attempts to stifle in human hearts the very truth of God, deliver us.

From sins against the Holy Spirit, deliver us, deliver us.

May your Immaculate Heart reveal for all the light of Hope."

It was at this time that John Paul renewed the consecration of the world and Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, having invited the bishops of the world to join him in a collegial manner and thus complying completely with one of the requests of the Fatima message. Two years later, in 1984, he repeated the same consecration. Events thereafter (1989) witnessed the collapse of the Communist regimes in Eastern Europe.

6. The end of the four hundred "days" brings us to 1999. In that year two full moons occur in the same month, as also in 1988, when there were two full moons in the month of May, as a prelude to the events of 1989.

7. The splendid era of peace, with which "the first prophecy" ends refers to the era of peace promised by Our Lady at Fatima, and which is being gradually prepared by the papal initiatives for the third millennium.

(See full text here)


On a side note to the above material, 1999 had the rare occasion of two blue moons occurring in the same year - a phenomenon which occurs once only every 19 years. It is interesting that Fr. Klauder links the intoning of the Te Deum at the end of the first 200 days with the Act of Entrustment made by Bl. John Paul II in the mid-1980's, which has been so often associated with the collapse of communism in Soviet Russia. And as we shall go into more detail in a future post, Pope John Paul II once again made an Act of Entrustment to the Virgin Mary during the Great Jubilee, on 8th Oct, 2000.
Another of aspect of these prophecies is complimented by Don Bosco's architectural plans for the Church of Mary Help of Christians in Turin, which were based on his prophetic visions. They show that the visions were based on the Battle of Lepanto in 1571, and intriguingly contained a prophetic date pointing to some time in the 20th century as the time of another great Marian victory.

...additional work on the Church of Mary Help of Christians was in progress. Each of the two belfries flanking the facade was to be surmounted by an angel, nearly eight feet tall, fashioned from gilded wrought copper, according to Don Bosco’s own plan. The angel on the right held a banner…bearing the word “LEPANTO” drilled in large letters through the metal, while the one on the left offered…a laurel wreath to the Blessed Virgin standing atop the dome.
In a previous design, the second angel too held a banner on which the figure “19” was drilled through the metal followed by two dots. It stood for another date, “nineteen hundred,” without the final two numbers to indicate the specific year. Though ultimately, as we have said, a laurel wreath was put into the angel’s hand, we have never forgotten the mysterious date which, in our opinion, pointed to a new triumph of the Madonna. May this come soon and bring all nations under Mary’s mantle.
(Lemoyne, Biographical Memoirs IX, p276)

When compared with the other prophecies mentioned above, it seems almost certain that the date 19.. referred to the year 1999.

So it seems that the prophecies of St John Bosco also suggest that the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary would take place in a period of history beginning at the turn of the millennium. The promised Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary is the ultimate fulfilment of the protoevangelium - the moment when the Woman Adorned with the Sun crushes the head of the Serpent (Gen 3:18). It is the intercession of Our Lady which accomplishes the victory of St. Michael over Satan, when the Evil One is cast from heaven to earth:


And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him...
(Rev 12:9)


But while the War in Heaven has been won, the earth still has to bear the full brunt of Satan's fury, when he transfers his power and authority to the Beast that rises from the sea - the Levithan which bears the wounded head that was crushed by the Woman Adorned with the Sun:


Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”
(Rev 12:12)


And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast.
(Rev 13:1-3)

It seems that the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary is an ongoing process, spanning a period of eschatological history beginning with the end of the 100 year reign of Satan, through to the Second Pentecost, and which will ultimately result in the Second Coming of Christ. It is this Triumph of the Immaculate Heart which will enable the Second Pentecost to take place, allowing the Bride of Christ to prepare herself for the coming of the Groom:


"Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; it was granted her to clothe herself
with fine linen, bright and pure”—
for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.
And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.”

(Rev 19:7-9)


The marriage supper of the Lamb is to be equated with the coming Second Pentecost, when the Bride of Christ is allowed to dress herself in the pure virginal linen of the righteous deeds of the saints. The Church must purify itself through the Second Pentecost and spread the Gospel to "the fullness of the Gentiles" (Rom 11:25), in order to prepare itself for the Coming of the Bridegroom.


And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
(Matt 24:14)


It is this renewed Church that is represented by the Heavenly Jerusalem, which comes down from heaven to meet the Bridegroom.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
(Rev 21:2)


If this interpretation is correct, then it would explain why Fr Gobbi stated that the Triumph would take place between two points in time - starting from the Great Jubilee of the year 2000, and would ultimately be accomplished in the Second Coming of Christ:


"I confirm to you that, in time for the great Jubilee of the year two thousand, the triumph of my Immaculate Heart, which I foretold to you at Fatima, will come about and it will be brought about with the return of Jesus in glory to establish His Kingdom in the world."















24 comments:

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your wonderful blog and book. Today's mention of the two full moons is something I would very much like to send to you about in email. I couldn't find your email anywhere on the site. God Bless your research, understanding and labor for our Lord & Lady.

Will said...

Month of Flowers, May. Next double full moon in May is 2018.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Hi Anon,

Thanks! My email address is included in the profile page. It's emmettoregan@talktalk.net.

Hi Will,

May was my thought as well for the month of flowers. That's interesting - so the next blue moon in May occurs just after the centenary of Fatima. That could be an extra element of the prophecy - hopefully the dawn of the Second Pentecost will take place by then, as B16 has prayed for.

Anonymous said...

I keep waiting for you to comment of the "period of peace" that is suppossed to be granted to mankind that coincides with the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. I've read about this promise of our Lady and it seems that we haven't had any peace in the years past Vatican II because there is always a war somewhere on the planet. I would assume the period of peace should be worldwide, but am I mistaken? And, if the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart is an ongoing process as you say, and was somehow completed with the fall of Satan in 1999, will there be some time frame within that process that is forthcoming that one could actually point to as the "period of peace?". Is it the new Pentecost?

Your scholarship on these subjects are the best I've read, and I've read alot. I so appreciate your hard work and going to the sources of these prophecies and linking them to the Book of Revelation and other prophetic events and writings. God bless you and your work!
Rose

Jason said...

Following quote is from a homily in Fatima from Pope Benedict XVI "May the seven years which separate us from the centenary of the apparitions hasten the fulfilment of the prophecy of the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, to the glory of the Most Holy Trinity."

Source -
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2010/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20100513_fatima_en.html

joerusso777 said...

From what I have found there is a double full moon month twice in 2018 but it is Jan and March. I really can't find a year that May has a double full moon until possibly late 2020's(not easy to find dates farther than 2020. Maybe there's a different way to read these prophecies, or maybe May isn't the month specified? Just a thought. Or maybe Will knows something I don't. I don't know much about these things so Will could be right. Ofcourse we all know date setting fo future events gets quite tricky. :) I guess that's why we're supposed to watch the signs and pray.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Hi Rose,

Thanks!

I believe that the period of the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart began at the turn of the millennium, but it is by no means complete. It will only be truly completed at the Parousia of Christ. We have yet to see its main fruit - which is the coming of the Second Pentecost. The Second Pentecost and the promised era of peace are one and the same. But I think this will be a religious peace, rather than a political era of peace. A peace between religions - when we will see a major renewal of Catholicism and mass conversions, brought about through the ministry of the Two Witnesses. It is this era of peace - which will see the unification of opposing religions under the banner of Catholicism, that is symbolised by the prophet Isaiah:

The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD
as the waters cover the sea.
In that day the root of Jesse, who shall stand as a signal for the peoples—of him shall the nations inquire, and his resting place shall be glorious.
(Isa 11:6-10)

Note that after this renewal "the root of Jesse" will "stand as a signal for the peoples" - which is a prophecy of the Second Coming.
It is also symbolised by the sanctuary in the wilderness provided for the Woman Adorned with the Sun - who as well as being the Virgin Mary, also represents the Church itself:

"and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days".
(Rev 12:6)

"But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth.
(Rev 12:14-16)

But I don't think this peace will be universal - there will always be doubters, which is just part of human nature.

"Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy."
(Rev 22:11)

We find some more details on this era of peace in the secrets of La Salette - which I'll be posting on in the near future.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Thanks Jason - that's the quote I was thinking of about the centenary of Fatima.

I think Will meant that the next time two blue moons occur during the same the year will be 2018 - in Jan and March, as you have pointed out Joe. And according to the below website, the next time a blue moon occurs in May is 2026:

http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/amoonb.html

But as you say Joe, it's probably a bad idea to become too fixated upon certain dates in the future. And according to Fr Klauder, the last time two full moons occured in May was in 1988 - which he feels is significant due to the remarkable collapse of Communism the following year in 1989, which many have attributed to be the fruits of Pope John Paul II's 1984 Act of Entrustment to the Virgin Mary.

Will said...

Joe and Emmett,

Thanks for seeing the mistake, you're right.

Anne said...

A wonderful and stirring post, also comforting in that we have The Eucharist and Our Lady to guide us on your journey come what may.

Jason said...

Hi Emmett and all,

I first saw the following prophecy in one of Dr. Courtenay Barthomew's book. This post stirred my memory and I found the following prophecy about 1999 from St. John Bosco," In a prophetical dream of Don Bosco, he saw two saints holding strips. In the strip of one of the angels, it was written "LEPANTO 1571". In the strip of the second angel, it was written "199_". Saint John Bosco knew that it was the indication that of a year, and wrote the number of the year, but erased later. Saint John Bosco was so impressed with the dream, that the scene described by him was perpetuated in the two columns at the main entrance of his Church, in Roma."

Emmett O'Regan said...

Thanks for that Jason! I was searching for that other element of the prophecy, but couldn't find reference to it anywhere. I forgot that it was this element that linked St. John Bosco's prophecy to the Battle of Lepanto. The significance of it was the dates of two great Marian victories - Lepanto was won through the intercession of Our Lady. And when you compare the erased date of 19XX to the other prophecies, we can be almost certain that it was 1999. I'll update this post to include mention of it.

Will said...

http://www.christiancentury.org/article/2012-05/analysis-catholic-bishops-divided-legal-battle-against-obama-birth-control-mandate

See the above article.
And this one below.

http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2012/05/power-struggle-in-vatican-benedict-xvis.html

Hard not to believe in the hidden message from Fatima, especially coupled with the one from Akito.

Jamey said...

Hi Will,

The next papal conclave will be interesting. There seems to be two churches within the church atm. A bit simplistic but there are the liberals (who seek to change the church in their image, eg ok contaception) and the traditionalists (who believe in objective truth and this doesnt change over time).

So it appears the next conclave will be liberal vs traditionlists. Some of the prospective candidates currently being touted are Cardinal's Burke, Arinze, Dolan and Scola. I personally think traditionalism will win out and we will have a further "pruning of the dead branches" and cleaning out of the church leading to the second pentecost. I am not sure the Tridentine Mass will be reinstalled as the normal Mass (would be great) but I think at the least there will be further "reforms to the reform" in particular the priest facing ad orientem during the Eucharistic prayers. Though I could only imagine the Satanic rage of atheists if the Tridentine Mass was to become the norm again.

Pope Paul vi's reign was one where the wrecking ball went through the church and there has been confusion and chaos ever since. There have been few strong statements to come from the Vatican (eg see Paul vi recommending eucharist on the tongue but not condemning eucharist in the hand which eventually has lead to many abuses).

B16 while a gentle man is now genuinely reforming the church, for example his 2005 moto proprio on the Tridentine Mass, and the current attempted cleanout of the US convents where apparently all sort of new age and heretical practises have been occuring.

Theologian Scott Hahn said when he wanted to convert to Catholicism he went to the local Catholic Church and told the priest his wish, the priest responded "Since Vatican II you don't have to convert to the Catholic Church." My question - does this priest truly believe in the real presence, because if he did why would you seek to deny a person the Eucharist. One priest recently commented in a sermon of a poll taken revealing 40% of priests no longer believe in the real presence, he said if that is not apostasy then what is.

Steven Cass said...

"The Satanic Rage of atheists." That phrase stuck out to me so much particularly because of all the recent atheist activity here in the U.S. e.g. the so-called "Reason Rally" in DC in April. I read about the things they were saying- Dawkins telling the crowds to openly mock to their faces Catholics who believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Also, the leader of the awful Freedom from Religion Foundation declaring that "nothing fails like prayer." All I could think when I read this was how outright Satanic it all was.

Jamey said...

I saw that Steve, they really hiss and spit venom at times some of those guys. Someone made the valid comment that the "militant" atheists are cowards, they pick on the easy targets (practising Catholics who turn the other cheek) while they wouldn't dare mock Islamists or even Jews (litigation) for that matter.

Jamey said...

Emmett this post and your book in general highlights an issue we have discussed before - the difficulty of validating prophecies due to the way their details have been handled.

Often we are not sure if certain prophecies attributed to saints were nothing more than Chinese whispers. Not that it probably matters anymore but it would have been handy if there was a more efficient record keeping system with the holy men and women of the church, I understand there would be huge complexities in governing such a system. Even one of the secrets of La Salette was lost until Rene Laurentin found it in the Vatican archives! Conversely I understand providence probably plays a hand in much of this.

I raise this, as for example many atheists dispute the classic photo of the Blessed Mother floating in front of the church in Zeitoun and say it is a forgery. I haven't found anywhere online where this can be refuted - for example if after it was taken the photo was examined by experts who then authenticated it with relevant details provided. Likewise it would be good if there were medical certificates authenticating the miraculous healing of the gangrenous thumb of the Muslim worker who initially saw the Blessed Mother on the church dome - the thumb was apparently due to be amputated the next day. Unless these details are preserved in a book/record I am unaware of, they have been lost and the event only occured a little over 40 years ago. I suppose once a little time elapses from the prophetical event/visionary's death it is then very difficult to validate if insufficient evidence is well preserved.

Emmett O'Regan said...

The lack of references to primary sources is a particular problem with the various Catholic prophecies found online, or indeed in books such as those by Yves Dupont and Desmond Birch. It makes doing proper academic research in this area very difficult indeed. I went to some lengths in trying to find the original sources of everything I quote in the book, and some are virtually impossible to trace. Although it has to be said, most times they turn out to be genuine.
You're right in saying that there isn't enough being done to document cases such as Zeitoun, etc - at least not publically anyway. Comparing the photographs of Zeitoun with the modern footage of the apparitions in Egypt makes them appear to be more credible to me. Then you have the thousands of eyewitnesses on the ground who all claim to be seeing the same thing - except in many cases the description of the apparitions appear to be a lot more detailed than what has been captured on film.
A better level of documentation would certainly help in dialouging with atheists, but I don't think any proofs would be ever be sufficent enough for some of them. Some people simply don't want to believe...

Steven Cass said...

Emmett,
I believe it was Augustine who said essentially the same thing- all the proofs in the world won't help if the person has no faith. Hmmm... Maybe it was Aquinas.

Jamey,
I was just reading today in Fr. Barron's excellent "Catholicism" about Our Lady of Guadalupe. Fr. Barron notes that the image is of no known pigmentation, in the eyes are the microscopic reflections of the kneeling Bishop, the sun, moon, and stars are all arranged exactly with how they would have been arranged that day in Dec. of 1531. Lastly, the tilma it was on should only last 29-25 years under the best of conditions.

An still atheists refuse to believe...

Jamey said...

Thanks Steve, I will have to check out Fr Barron's series as I know a few people interested in joining the faith and it sounds like a good tool for evangelisation.

Emmett, I agree and recently I was dialouging with an agnostic who wasnt sure about the validity of the near death experience and he was wondering whether in fact it was just a hallucination. He spoke with another woman about this and she brought up a time she was on the operating table when she "came out of her body". She noticed the doctor had a small bald patch on top of his head which she said she had no way of knowing and she later verified as true. However strangely enough she still didnt believe her experience was genuine which my friend also found odd.

One of the better books I have come across was Bernard Ruffin's book on Padre Pio, he wrote this book 13 years after the Padre died. He quotes every source of information he received (he travelled to Pietrelcina). Even then he had great difficulty in validating many stories as people had already died,records not kept etc.

Peterman said...

Emmett, interesting work.

I always think of the English saying or prophecy "when Our Lord falls in Our Lady's lap, England will meet with a great mishap." This of course means when our Lady holds our Lord's body in her arms (good Friday). So a feast of our Lady falling on Good Friday. The next year this will happen is 2016. 500th anniversary of Luther 1517, 100th anniversary of Fatima 2017. Other political terms end that in 2016 as well. Look out for 16/17.

federalexpression said...

I wanted to add that in Jerusalem, April is considered the month of flowers. Just stay open to that possibility as well.

Anonymous said...

Lazio is where Castle Gondalfo is located, and this where Pope Benedict is at now! He is no longer properly vested, but will he become pope again?!

winno said...

Hi Just to respond to Jamey on Pope Paul V1 and Communion.
I found the actual document on the vote taken by the Bishops on whether communion should be taken on the tongue or allowed in the hand. The majority of Bishops voted against communion in the hand and the Pope upheld communion on the tongue.
There was a loop hole though.

Some of the Bishops had already began the practice in some places and Pope Paul decided that in this case this could continue. Other than than it was banned.
Sadly it appears those Bishops who voted to allow communion in the hand went ahead and began the practice in countries that did not already have it. So people in most Countries who adopted communion in the hand after the vote are not even aware it is banned. Pope John Paul 11 banned communion in the hand in the Vatican in 2000. Maybe he became aware of the Vote. It would be great if people became aware stopped the practice. My Mother and Sister was not aware of this and thankfully stopped the practice assoon as i showed them the proof.