Friday, 22 February 2013

The Worthy Shepherd, the Great Schism and the Millennium



As we have already noted, there is an amazing correlation between the prophecy of Bl. Elizabeth Canori-Mora and the lightning strikes which hit St. Peter's Basilica just hours after Pope Benedict XVI announced his abdication. First, we must take into account that during his inaugural address, the Holy Father had used his now famous statement "Pray for me, that I do not flee for fear of the wolves". Last year, I had suggested that this directly alluded to the prophecies of Bl. Elizabeth, who saw a pope:

"surrounded by wolves who plotted to betray him… I saw the Sanhedrin of wolves which surrounded the Pope, and two angels weeping… when I asked them why they were sad and lamenting, looking upon Rome with eyes full of compassion they responded, ‘Wretched city, ungrateful people, the justice of God will chastise you.’”

This situation already sounds like the recent revelations of divisions in the Church, highlighted by last years Vatileaks scandals, where it had emerged that there were several factions in the Church hierarchy who appeared to be attempting to undermine the Holy Father. Divisions which Pope Benedict referred to during his last Homily as the Supreme Pontiff:

Finally, the prophet considers the prayer of the priests, who turn to God with tears, saying: "Do not make your heritage a mockery, a byword among the nations. Why should it be said among the peoples, ‘Where is their God?’" (v. 17). This prayer makes us think of the importance of the witness of Christian faith and life given by each of us and our communities for showing the face of the Church, and how that face is sometimes disfigured. I think in particular of sins against the unity of the Church, and divisions within the body of the Church. To experience Lent in a more intense and manifest ecclesial communion, overcoming individualism and rivalry, is a humble and valuable sign for those who are distant from the faith or indifferent.
(Homily of His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI, Ash Wednesday, Feb 13th, 2013. See full text here)


The next part of Bl. Elizabeth's prophecy also appears to have been alluded to by Pope Benedict:

“many ecclesiastics who persecute Jesus Crucified and His holy Gospel under the guise of doing good… Like furious wolves they scheme to pull the Church leader down from his throne.”

The Holy Father echoed this exact sentiment during his Angelus prayer on 17th Feb:

“The Temptor is devious: he does not push us towards evil directly, but towards a false good, making us believe that the real things that matter are power and whatever satisfies our primary needs,”
Pope Benedict XVI

What "good" are these wolves surrounding the Holy Father pushing for? Are these words being directed at a progressive element within the Church hierarchy that is pushing for a more liberal papacy? A progressive element that has pushed Pope Benedict XVI from the chair of St. Peter? While I believe that the Holy Father has left the papacy of his own accord, and that he has done so in a profound act of humility; I can't help but to wonder how many behind the scenes were there behind him manipulating, convincing him of his need to step down. And that the motivations behind such actions, while perceived to be "for the good" by those who are committing them, are arousing a great anger in God.

Next Bl. Elizabeth was shown a vision of the anger that these wolves aroused in God, which resulted in the falling of blazing lightning bolts of Divine Justice to announce the chastisement which is to take place:

Then she was allowed to see the terrible indignation these wolves aroused in God. “In terror I saw the blazing lightening bolts of Divine Justice fall about me. I saw buildings collapsing in ruins. Cities, regions and the whole world fell into chaos. One heard nothing but countless weak voices calling out for mercy. Countless people will be killed. [I saw that God was] extremely angry with those who persecute Him. His omnipotent hands were holding bolts of lightening, His face was resplendent with indignation and His gaze alone was enough to incinerate the whole world.”


Bl. Elizabeth then turns from her vision of God casting lightning bolts after the wolves try to pull the pope from his throne, to a vision of the chastisement which is to take place after, with the collapse of buildings and the whole world turning to chaos. But she then looks beyond this vision of chastisement, and sees the coming of the Angelic Pope - who will restore the Church from its state of decay:


On the feast of Saints Peter and Paul, June 29, 1820, she saw Saint Peter descending from heaven, robed in papal vestments and surrounded by a legion of angels. With his crosier he drew a great cross over the face of the earth, separating it into four quadrants. In each of these quadrants, he then brought forth a tree, sprouting with new life. Each tree was in the shape of a cross and enveloped in magnificent light.
However, all will not end in this death and destruction. After these purifying punishments, she saw Saint Peter return on a majestic papal throne together with Saint Paul, who went through the world shackling the devils and bringing them before Saint Peter, who cast them back into the dark caverns from where they had come. “Then a beautiful splendor came over the earth, to announce the reconciliation of God with mankind.”
The small flock of faithful Catholics who had taken refuge under the trees will be brought before Saint Peter, who will “choose a new pope. All the Church will be reordered according to the true dictates of the holy Gospel. The religious orders will be reestablished and the homes of Christians will become homes imbued with religion.
“So great will be the fervor and zeal for the glory of God that everything will promote love of God and neighbor. The triumph, glory and honor of the Catholic Church will be established in an instant. She will be acclaimed, venerated and esteemed by all. All will resolve to follow Her, recognizing the Vicar of Christ as the Supreme Pontiff.”


Rather amazingly, another lightning strike on St. Peter's Basilica has occurred in recent times - on the Feast of Ss. Peter and Paul, June 29th, 1995 - the exact feast day mentioned by Bl. Elizabeth Canori Mora concerning her vision of St. Peter descending from heaven!
What's even more astonishing is the fact that the lightning strike took place during a meeting between Pope John Paul II and the Greek Othrodox Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople. In his homily for the feast of Ss. Peter and Paul, titled "We cannot remain separated", Pope John Paul II concluded with the following words:

Christ is sending us out together, so that we may jointly bear witness to him. Thus we cannot remain separated! We must walk together, because this is Our Lord's will. The world must recover its faith at the end of the second millennium and at the start of the third!
(See here)

This meeting was recorded by the journal Orthodox Life (Vol. 45, 1995), published by the Holy Trinity Monastery of the Orthodox Church:

John Paul II, head of the Roman Catholic Church, and Patriarch Bartholomew, symbolic head of Orthodox Christians, together, on Thursday, June 29, from the balcony of the basilica of St. Peter, blessed their faithful all over the world. They addressed a common appeal for the reunification of the Christian churches, separated for 1,000 years. The two religious leaders came to participate at a mass in the Vatican, where they undertook to redouble their ecumenical efforts...

In an atmosphere charged with intensity... ambassadors credited to the Holy See, members of the Sacred College, and numerous high officials of the Vatican, the Pope, and the Patriarch each in their turn spoke... to express their intention to 'dispel' the misunderstandings which have separated Christians… since the 11th century...

The Patriarch underlined "that today, happily... we have arrived at a maturity." The Pope, in turn, suggested that papal authority would have to be supreme in a unified Church because Christ had given Saint Peter, the first pope, free power to rule the flock on earth.

Patriarch Bartholomew then asked Christians to pray and fast to oppose the power of the Devil and to drive out demons. At that exact moment, all the faithful were startled by a lightning bolt which struck the basilica, followed by a violent summer storm.


This of course echoes the words of Jesus in the Gospels:

The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!” And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you.
(Luke 10:17-19)

As I suggest in my book Unveiling the Apocalypse: Prophecy in Catholic Tradition, the true nature of the "millennium" described in the Book of Revelation appears to be primarily related to the Great Schism between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches in 1054, which ended Christian unity a thousand years after the Apostolic Council at Jerusalem had first achieved unity around the year 50AD by settling a dispute that had threatened to split the Early Church (see Acts 15). As Christ himself had explicitly stated concerning the casting out and binding of Satan, if a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand:

And he called them to him and said to them in parables, “How can Satan cast out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end. But no one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. Then indeed he may plunder his house.
(Mark 3:23-27)

Christ uses this statement directly in relation to the binding of Satan - the strong man who is the "god of this world", and who blinds the minds of the unbelievers:

In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
(2 Cor 4:4)

Christ entered the "strong man's house" through his Incarnation in the womb of the Virgin Mary - the Theotokos or "God-bearer", and bound him through His sacrificial death on the Cross, from where he descended into hell to free the captives before his glorious Resurrection from the dead.
We are told in the Book of Revelation that Satan would be bound for "a thousand years", after which he would be released once again to deceive the inhabitants of the earth:

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.
(Rev 20:1-3)

So while the "thousand years" refers to the age of the Church, beginning from Christ's ministry to the release of Satan for "a little while" towards the end of the age; we can also find a literal one thousand year period in which the East and West were united in harmony. During the Great Schism, the Filioque controversy resulted in the Eastern Churches questioning the extent of Papal Primacy, causing a complete rift among the two churches which has remained for almost a thousand years. As I noted in last year's post The Great Sign in Catholic Prophecy, one of the few, and indeed best known, historically verifiable supernovae SN1054, took place in the year 1054AD, the exact year of the East-West schism that saw the division of the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches, ending a thousand years of Christian unity. And supernovae have the almost unique capacity to produce a very bright cross-shaped star formation in the sky - as was recorded by Josephus in the events leading up to the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple in 70AD:

Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation, but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them. Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year. Thus also before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus, [Nisan,] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it...
(Josephus, Jewish Wars VI:5:3 See full text here)
So the supernovae seen in the night skies during the Great Schism would similarly have appeared as a "sword shaped" star. Which sounds remarkably similar to the events described by Bl. Elizabeth Canori Mora:

On the feast of Saints Peter and Paul, June 29, 1820, she saw Saint Peter descending from heaven, robed in papal vestments and surrounded by a legion of angels. With his crosier he drew a great cross over the face of the earth, separating it into four quadrants. In each of these quadrants, he then brought forth a tree, sprouting with new life. Each tree was in the shape of a cross and enveloped in magnificent light.

Rather profoundly, the Filioque controversy concerns whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and Son (the Roman Catholic position), or whether from the Father alone (the Eastern Orthodox position). A debate it seems will only be settled during the final Outpouring of the Holy Spirit during the eschatological age, when Jesus will send forth the Paraclete (who also proceeds from the Father) to guide all to the truth:

“And it shall come to pass afterward,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh;
your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
your old men shall dream dreams,
and your young men shall see visions.
Even on the male and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit.
“And I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls.
(Joel 2:28-32)

"But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me."
(John 15:26)

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you."
(John 16:12-15)

Following the Great Schism, the Church as the kingdom of Christ on earth was divided itself, allowing Satan to gain a foothold in the world once again. This would gradually facilitate the spread of Islam, the Protestant Reformation, the separation of Church and State, and the emergence of occult secret societies which have spearheaded the secularising forces causing the Great Apostasy we are enduring today.
Although Christ reigns eternally as King in Heaven, where His Kingdom has no end, Jesus' teaching on the Kingdom of God was that it was both "now, and not yet" - what theologians refer to as "inaugurated eschatology". Whilst Christ taught that the Kingdom of God was now present in His own ministry, He also taught that it is something that will only be fully achieved in the future during the eschatological age.
As the Catechism states:

"Though already present in his Church, Christ's reign is nevertheless yet to be fulfilled "with power and great glory" by the King's return to earth. This reign is still under attack by the evil powers, even though they have been defeated definitively by Christ's Passover. Until everything is subject to him, "until there be realized new heavens and a new earth in which justice dwells, the pilgrim Church, in her sacraments and institutions, which belong to this present age, carries the mark of this world which will pass, and she herself takes her place among the creatures which groan and travail yet and await the revelation of the sons of God." That is why Christians pray, above all in the Eucharist, to hasten Christ's return by saying to him: Marana tha! "Our Lord, come!"
(CCC 671)

In the Our Father, we are told to pray for the coming of the Kingdom so that the Divine Will of God will be "done on earth as it is in heaven" (Matt 6:10). The Kingdom of God can only be fully emulated on earth through the unity of orthodox Christendom, when East and West once again finally become one, in accordance with Christ's prayer:

“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.
(John 17:20-23).

It is this unity, brought about by the actions of the Holy Spirit, which will purify the Church, allowing the Bride of Christ to dress itself in fine virginal linen in preparation for the coming of the Groom:

 Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the roar of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, crying out,
 “Hallelujah!
 For the Lord our God
  the Almighty reigns.
 Let us rejoice and exult
  and give him the glory,
 for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
  and his Bride has made herself ready;
 it was granted her to clothe herself
  with fine linen, bright and pure”—
 for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.
 And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.”

(Rev 19:6-9)


As long as orthodox Christianity is divided against itself, it cannot hope to stand against the steady onslaught of the forces of Satan. But once the Angelic Pope purifies the Church and unites it with its lost brothers, all men will be drawn to Christ:

Father, glorify your name.” Then a voice came from heaven: “I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.” The crowd that stood there and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to him.” Jesus answered, “This voice has come for your sake, not mine. Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
(John 12:28-32)

It is here that we can begin to see what may have been signified by the lightning strike on St. Peter's Basilica after the Holy Father's announcement of abdication, and its connection to the lightning strike on the feasts of Ss. Peter and Paul on 29th June, 1995 during the meeting of Pope John Paul II and Patriach Bartholmew I. Those with Christ thought that the voice coming from heaven to glorify the name of the Father was thunder, while others thought that it was the voice of an angel. Christ told them that the voice was announcing the judgment of the world, and that the ruler of this world - Satan, would be cast out:

The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!” And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you.
(Luke 10:17-19)

It seems that the lightning strike on St. Peter's Basilica, hours after Pope Benedict announced his abdication signifies the defeat of Satan. In a profound act of humility which is the complete opposite of Satanic pride, by stepping down as Supreme Pontiff it seems that the Holy Father has hastened the Devil's final defeat by bringing forward the reign of the Angelic Pope. The wolves' plans will be turned on their heads and the Church will be restored to its former glory.
At key points in the Bible, both lightning and falling stars are used to symbolise the fall of Satan - an event which I argue at some length occurred at the turn of the millennium. In the post Tunguska, Pope Leo XIII and the Opening of the Abyss, I argue that the Tunguska event symbolised the angel holding the key to the abyss unlocking the gates of hell at the beginning of the 100 years of Satan's greater power:

And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft. Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth.
(Rev 9:1-3)

This is to be equated with the "little while" mentioned in Rev 20:3, where we are told that Satan would be unleashed for a period before the end of the world, to gather the nations for war. I also argue that this time period began at the turn of the 20th century, and was marked by Pope Leo XIII's consecration of the world to the Sacred Heart of Jesus in 1899, in the same year as a rare planetary alignment that can be interpreted as "the keys to Death and Hades" (see the post The Seven Wandering Stars and the Heads of the Dragon). So just as the 1908 Tunguska event symbolised the angel unlocking the abyss at the start of Satan's "little while", so it seems that this new Russian meteor strike symbolises the fall of Satan and the closing of the abyss, when he is cast from heaven to earth at the end of his period of greater power. This is just over twelve years since the astronomical events at the turn of the millennium symbolised that the 100 years of greater power was over, and that Satan was defeated in Heaven (see the posts The Fall of Satan, Signs in the Sky and The Year of the Dragon).
It is also interesting to note that the Book of Revelation states that the Apocalyptic Locusts wouldn't be able to harm people for "five months". According to Tyconius' Book of Rules (4th century AD) - one of the oldest books dealing with the interpretation of prophecy, days can be equated with weeks, months or years and vice versa in prophetic texts (e.g. Jeremiah's seventy weeks is reinterpreted as seven weeks of years - 7 x 70 - by the prophet Daniel). So the five "months" could mean five years in a prophetic sense. If we count five years from the Tunguska event in 1908, we arrive at the year 1913. Which brings us to just before the outbreak of WWI - when military aircraft were first put to use, and the first deaths by these "locusts" first began. So the locusts weren't allowed to kill people for five "months" (equalling years), but after this time period had elapsed, they were permitted to kill.
So just as the effects of the 100 years of Satan's greater power were not felt until the outbreak of WWI in 1914, so it seems that the effects of the end of Satan's greater power after his defeat in Heaven would not be felt until 100 years after this - which brings us to up to this very moment.




“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.
(Isa 14:12-15)

Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.
(Rev 12:7-10)

As I have argued in my book, and on various posts through this blog, it is only through the defeat of Satan in heaven that will allow the Second Pentecost to take place. The Church has passed through the "trials of Job" during the time of Satan's greater power. But the War in Heaven marks the end of the "little while" of Satan's greater power on earth. And just as Job's fortune was restored to him, with interest  on top, the fortunes of the Church will be restored during the Second Pentecost, bringing our brothers and sisters lost to schism back into full communion with the Roman Catholic Church:

And the LORD restored the fortunes of Job, when he had prayed for his friends. And the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before. Then came to him all his brothers and sisters and all who had known him before, and ate bread with him in his house.
(Job 42:10-11)

But how is this Second Pentecost to come about? The Church has been trying to reach out to the modern world with the New Evangelisation for many years now, and for the most part, its efforts have been met in vain. To help us understand how the New Springtime of the Church will come about, we must turn to Christ's prophetic words in the Gospel:

On one occasion, while the crowd was pressing in on him to hear the word of God, he was standing by the lake of Gennesaret, and he saw two boats by the lake, but the fishermen had gone out of them and were washing their nets. Getting into one of the boats, which was Simon's, he asked him to put out a little from the land. And he sat down and taught the people from the boat. And when he had finished speaking, he said to Simon, “Put out into the deep and let down your nets for a catch.” And Simon answered, “Master, we toiled all night and took nothing! But at your word I will let down the nets.” And when they had done this, they enclosed a large number of fish, and their nets were breaking. They signaled to their partners in the other boat to come and help them. And they came and filled both the boats, so that they began to sink. But when Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, “Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord.” For he and all who were with him were astonished at the catch of fish that they had taken, and so also were James and John, sons of Zebedee, who were partners with Simon. And Jesus said to Simon, “Do not be afraid; from now on you will be catching men.” And when they had brought their boats to land, they left everything and followed him.
(Luke 5:1-11)

Seeing two boats out by the lake of Gennesaret, Christ gets into the one belonging to Simon Peter. After asking them to pull out a little from the land, he teaches the people in St. Peter's boat, and after he has finished speaking, he instructs those aboard exactly where to cast their nets. Simon Peter laments that they have toiled all during the night, and have took nothing. But Christ has been speaking to the people in St. Peter's boat since it first departed the shore with the Lord aboard. He who has been been with us "always, to the end of the age” (Matt 28:20). During the night-time of the Great Apostasy, the light of Christ's truth has been obscured by the "god of this world", and the crew of St. Peter's bark are lamenting because they have caught no fish. But Christ, who has been speaking to those on board St. Peter's boat all the while (through various private revelations), will show St. Peter exactly where to cast his nets, and they will enclose a very great number of fish. So many indeed, that the nets (clergy) will not be able to support the sheer weight of them. The crew of St. Peter's will have to signal to our partners in the other boat - the crew of St. Andrew, to come and help us, so that both boats will be filled.






90 comments:

ttomosky said...

On the Filioque controversy...

"But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me." (John 15:26)

Gee, maybe the Orthodox are right!

Dave said...

Regarding the Filioque controversy, mentioned by ttomosky: in some mysterious way, I believe that both are right. Certainly, the Spirit does proceed from the Father. Both Catholics and Orthodox agree about that. When one reads the history of the matter, it becomes clear that it is more of a misunderstanding and different ways of thinking than any real dogmatic issue. It seems that this is something that could be discussed in an ecumenical council, and is not something that should have separated the body of Christ for 1000 years.

Dave said...

About the Popes, I am a believe in Garabandal, and Conchita prophesied that after John XXIII, there would come three more Popes, and then the end of times. Many thought the Garabandal prophecy was proven wrong after Benedict XVI become Pope with no earth shattering events taking place. However, it is little known that Conchita actually referred to FOUR more Popes, but omitted one due to his reigning such a short time so as to be insignificant. So it appears that the Garabandal prophecy corresponds with the Worthy Shepherd prophecy and others that have been mentioned.

Laura in AZ said...

More to consider... I am feeling a bit overwhelmed here. Thank you so much Emmett for pulling all of this together. Bless you as you continue your work.

Sr. Lorraine said...

This is really a lot of food for thought. Thank you, Emmett, for your fine analysis.

Today, the Chair of St. Peter, I read Mt 16 about Jesus giving Peter the keys of the kingdom. Then I compared it with Rev 3, the message to the Church at Philadelphia, and noticed some interesting points of contact. Do you think they could be related somehow, and/or related to the papacy? I realize maybe the human author didn't intend to relate them, but perhaps the Holy Spirit did. (also Is 22, the text about Shebna and Eliakim and the key of David).

1. "The holy one" Rev. 3:7 In his book about Jesus (vol 1), Pope Benedict connects Peter's confession of faith in John 6:69 ("We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God") with his confession at Caesarea Philippi: "You are the Messiah; the Son of the living God" (Mt 16:16).

2. The key of David (Rev 3:7; Mt 16:19; Is 22:22)

3. Rev 3:8--"You have not denied my name" Yet Peter did deny Jesus, though he later repented. Could also relate to Rev 3:7, "the true" [one]

4. Rev 3:9 "assembly of Satan"--in Mt. 16:23, Jesus rebukes Peter right after giving him the keys, because Peter rejects the idea of the cross. Pope Benedict says in his book on Jesus, that this has to be read in light of the temptations Jesus endured from Satan (the Gospel for the first Sunday of Lent).

5. The change of name, from Simon to Peter. Rev 3:12: "The victor...on him I will inscribe the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, as well as my new name" Ezekiel 48:35, the closing of the book, says the name of the city is "God is here." (Jehovah Shammah in Hebrew, from what I could find online).

6. The rock--could this be related to "the pillar" of Rev 3:12?

Also, if this is somehow connected to the papacy, could it have anything to do with the schism? I'm wondering this because Rev 3:12 says "The victor I will make into a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will never leave it again." Could that refer to an ending of the schism? Also, the image of the open door could seem like an invitation. I don't want to strain the texts too much but maybe at some level things connect.

Tom DiFilippo said...

The bark of St. Andrew is the Eastern Orthodox church?

Emmett O'Regan said...

Hi Tom,

Yes, St. Andrew is the patron of the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the brother of St. Peter.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Sr. Lorraine,

You are seeing something which I was working on several years ago (2009 to be exact) which involves St. Malachy's list of popes. But I had abandoned this until recently, because it wasn't really clear. I'm amazed, because I've been thinking about this a lot recently.
It involves equating the seven oracles to the "angels" of the seven churches to the seven last popes on St. Malachy's list. Now the following interpretation might be somewhat fanciful... But, if we consider that this isn't necessarily directed at the person of the pope himself, and rather that it can flit from the pope to the prevailing spirit of the entire Church at the time, then it can yeild some interesting results.
I haven't perceived some of the material you have pointed out, but what you have mentioned fits perfectly. I'll have to study this in more detail... The Holy Spirit works in wonderous ways! Thank you for highlighting this, I think it confirms it for me.
The interpretation involves seperating the oracle for the first angel from the part at the end concerning the "overcomer" - which is directed at the successor to the relevant "angel". I'll leave you to do this for yourself for the rest of the "angels", since I think that anybody can see this if they know what they are looking for. But if this is correct, then the oracle directed at Pope Benedict XVI is as follows:

“And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: ‘The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no one opens.

“‘I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you. Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth. I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, SO THAT NO ONE MAY SEIZE YOUR CROWN."

Now, the part concerning the "overcomer" in the preceding oracle says this concerning Pope Benedict:

"The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels."

I think you'll work out that the "new name" refers to John Paul I, if you study closely...
And the "pillar" refers to Jachin and Boaz - which represent the Two Witnesses.

Lynn said...

I see the lightening strike on the Vatican to mean something different. And the earthquake? We will not have an angelic pope. Only when our Blessed Mother crushes the head of the serpent will we have complete peace. But before this happens, forget peace and unity among men! We need divine intervention now for man has been smothered by satan for too long.

Anonymous said...

"However, it is little known that Conchita actually referred to FOUR more Popes"

Source for this? Because there was an awful lot of backpeddling when the world did not end after JPII, including reinterpreting the statement to mean "end of an era". If you don't have a source, you are spreading lies.

Sr. Lorraine said...

Thank you, Emmett, for all those observations! That's really interesting! I hadn't thought about it in terms of specific popes, but the papacy in general.

Just a brief reading made me think of John Paul I in relation to Sardis and in view of his sudden death: "You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead....which is going to die, for I have not found your works complete"! Then the reference to coming like a thief.

I have to reread it all in that light.

The Apocalypse is so rich, I think we can never really plumb its depths.

Dave said...

Anonymous,

You asked for a source. I will provide it. However, I thought that folks would just Google "Garabandal four Popes." It's easy enough, and seems better to do that than tell someone that they may be spreading lies.

Anyway, the original information came from a book published in German in 1993 by Mr. Albrecht Weber entitled "Der Zeigefinger Gottes" or "The Finger of God" , who interviewed the girls at the very time the apparitions were going on.

Here is just one of the links that discusses this, along with some other little known Garabandal information:

http://www.virgendegarabandal.com/conferencia_jose_luisENGLISH.htm

miltonic rhetoric said...

An interesting interpretation.

I agree with almost everything you said, but on one point I will diverge and that is as regards "the thousand years" spoken of in Revelation Chapter 20.

As I see it, "the thousand years" is a line of demarcation between two other very important events: the defeat of the false prophet and the Beast and the defeat of Gog and Magog.

Also, during the thousand years we are told that Satan is "chained" and "sealed" in "the Abyss" during which time he is unable to "deceive" the nations. If one browses through last several hundred (if not thousands) of years of history going right back to the time of Christ, we will find Satan deceiving the nations at will. For this reason (and looking strictly at Public Revelation) I believe that the binding and sealing of Satan in the Abyss for an extended period of time (symbolized by the thousand years) is a future event to look forward to.




miltonic rhetoric said...

To Dave and Anonymous regarding the "three popes prophecy" made to Conchita:

The reference is to the end of the times (or end of the era). It would have commenced either at the end of PJPII or the current Pontiff's reign (which will end at the end of this month) depending on how you interpret the prophecy.

In any case, Conchita did not even know what that prophecy meant and it would be a mistake to say that the Warning must coincide with the time frame of the "three popes" prophecy or that the "end of the times" would coincide with some visible event. That would be reading too much into things.

Perhaps this prophecy of the "end of the times" corresponds somehow to then Cardinal Karol Wojtyla's 1978 statement that:

"We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel and the anti-Gospel. This confrontation lies within the plans of divine providence. It is a trial which the whole Church… must take up."

Emmett O'Regan said...

Sr. Lorraine,

As I say, I haven't really researched this enough myself. I've just been toying with the idea, and it might be nothing... But, working backwards from the next pope, Sardis would equate with John Paul II. "You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead", could refer to the assassination attempt. The words of Card. Sodano in The Message of Fatima come to mind:

"it appeared evident to his Holiness that it was a motherly hand which guided the bullets past, enabling the dying Pope to halt at the threshold of death."

Emmett O'Regan said...

Miltonic,

I know that there are some Catholics who argue that there will be a thousand years of peace (e.g. Fr. Ianuzzi, etc.). I do respect this take, which is very optimistic. But this is very much a minority position in Catholicism. The vast majority follow St. Augustine's amillennialism, which has a general distaste for something which claims to be able to establish a paradise here on earth. As Christ said:
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”
(John 18:36)

As the Catechism states:

"The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgement."

We can already see this deception arise in the principles of the Transhumanist movement, which claims to be able to deify humanity through technology. Transhumanists claim that within a few decades they will be able to fully map the human brain, and download our consciences into computers. Or that through the development of nanotechology, we will have bodies that will be able to replenish and sustain itself indefinitely, creating artifical "eternal life". The thing is, the vast majority of futurists believe that they are right. Humanity probably will be able to develop such technology, given enough time. So there is the temptation to establish here on earth what can only be fully realised through the eschatological judgment. The angel with the flaming sword which protects the Tree of Life will not allow this to happen. We can see a precusor to this in the confusion of tongues at the building of the Tower of Babel:

"Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.” And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of man had built. And the LORD said, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. And NOTHING THAT THEY PROPOSE TO DO WILL NOW BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM. Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another's speech.”
(Gen 11:4-7)

God has seen this time coming, and has acted to prevent it before. He will do so again.

Sr. Lorraine said...

Emmett, that's a good point about John Paul II. In light of that, the previous part about the "overcomer" or victor seems to fit him too. "authority over the nations" could reference his many journeys around the world, and the morning star "stella matutina" refers to Mary, and he was certainly a Marian pope.

One other thought came to me last night to add to some ideas about Benedict and the glory of the olive. The "Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture," in the volume on Romans, quotes the Fathers regarding Paul's reference to the olive tree in ch. 11.

Pelagius said: "The richness of the olive tree is the root of their [the Jews'] fathers, the richness of Christ.

Theodoret of Cyr: "The riches of the olive tree means the teaching of righteousness."

Ambrosiaster said: "The olive tree represents faith."

So besides all the other things that apply in regard to the glory of the olive, if the olive represents faith, then Benedict's year of faith can also be seen in that light! And even more, he is a teacher "par excellence" and has done so much to help the flock understand the faith better.

Anonymous said...

You're getting ahead of yourself with "spreading lies". Yes, I know you said "if".

Dave said...

miltonic rhetoric,
Yes, I agree that the prophecy of the Popes to come (which ended up being Paul VI, John Paul II, and Benedict XVI, with John Paul I not being counted as he had a very short reign) before the "end of the times" does not necessarily mean that the Warning and Miracle are imminent. It does seem to mean that we are entering into some sort of extremely significant historical change, assuming, of course, that Garabandal is authentic.

Dave said...

This is the English translation (best I can find) of the original German, which can be found online if you look for it:

Alone at home, fearing a possible error from Conchita's part, her mother's asks her:
-- How do you know that there will only be three more Popes?

Conchita answered:
-- The Blessed Virgin told me. In reality She told me that there would FOUR Popes but She was not counting one of them.

Aniceta then says:
-- Then, why not count one of them?

Conchita responds:
-- She did not say; She only told me that one would not be counted; however, he would govern the Church for a very short time.

MP said...

Re: four popes?

I'm sorry, but this just screams FRAUD.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Sr. Lorraine,

Thanks for pointing out the "authority over the nations". Perhaps this refers to the completely unexpected and bloodless collapse of the Soviet Union following the 1984 consecration of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary? And also the consecration in the year 2000, which I argue saw the head of the Serpent crushed, this could be the fulfilment of him being given the Morning Star.
The admonishment portion is directed at the members of the Church itself, which by this time was descending further and further into apostasy.
The "overcomer", "conquerer" or "successor" to Sardis is then Philedelphia, who will be clothed in white garments. The clothing in white garments refers to the Second Pentecost, when the Bride is allowed to adorn itself with fine linen.
This would then tie in the with Year of Faith and the Olive representing faith. Wouldn't it be amazing if the Second Pentecost began in the Year of Faith!
Philadelphia/Glory of the Olive, is told he would be spared from the "hour of trial that is coming on the whole world".
I think this may be something worth pursuing further...

joerusso777 said...

The comments between you and sr Lorraine Emmett are really giving all you have posted another amazing perspective!
By the way Emmett have you seen Sr Lorraine blogpost on her site about John Boscos dream and the current situation? If nothing else a very discerning connection.
I hope you don't mind the endorsement Sister, but Sister Lorraine's blog site has some interesting thoughts as well everyone. Check it out.

Dave said...

"I'm sorry, but this just screams FRAUD."

Opinions will vary. All I know is that someone I find trustworthy went to Germany and spoke to Mr. Weber, and is convinced he is telling the truth. His book was originally published in 1993, and can still be ordered on Amazon. In 1993, there wouldn't have yet been much of a reason to perpetrate fraud by changing it from three to four Popes.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread so that's the last I'm going to say about it.

miltonic rhetoric said...

Emmett,

The "thousand years" is not to be interpreted literally. It simply means an extended period of time.

Although I understand your concerns, I do believe that the Millennium is a future event for the reasons I stated previously.

I do not believe that the Church has ruled definitively on the proper interpretation of the Millennium. The early Church Fathers wrote about the possibility of an extended period of peace on the earth. "Universal world peace" is quite possible and would be highly probable if everyone was united to the Mystical Body of Christ (the Catholic Church) and if everyone was living in a state of grace. Did you read what the Holy Father recently said in his message for the World Day of Peace on Jan. 1st? He said that "Peace is not a dream or something utopian; it is possible." Peace becomes possible when we externalize the Kingdom of God within us. If peace is possible for individuals then it is certainly possible for collections of individuals called nations. Our Lady of Fatima has also promised an "Era of Peace" to the world. In 2010, Pope Benedict prayed publicly that this Triumph of the Immaculate Heart would commence prior to the 100th Anniversary of Fatima in 2017. In Isaiah we read about a time within history when the "wolves and the lambs feed together..."

Regarding "Transhumanism": this is a grave evil and must be rejected regardless of any positive benefits for humanity.

VTA said...

Yes, but don't forget the "*I* will send" part.

VTA said...

I agree. Also, people seem compelled to say the thousand years is symbolic, but it may in fact be literal.

VTA said...

I have read in several places that Augustine's amillennialism was not the majority position among the Church Fathers that preceded him; that he was influenced by Origen and a certain anti-Semitism that was abroad. Also, despite the Catechism (whose words on this I find somewhat nebulous), the Holy Office (?), has said that there has never been a definitive teaching on the what and when of the thousand years. I know Catholics believe there has been, but that's what I found when I researched this extensively about a year ago.

VTA said...

I'm glad you're not a judge in our court system (are you?) Of course, your impression is understandable, but that's all it is.

Sr. Lorraine said...

Thank you, Joe, for the endorsement! I appreciate that and hope the blog may be helpful to people.

I'm finding this conversation very fascinating, too, with all the insights from everybody.

What Emmett said about the collapse of communism makes a lot of sense. As an aside, in 1984 I was preparing for perpetual vows and we printed thousands of the prayer leaflets with the Pope's prayer of entrustment to Mary. I'm happy I had some small part in helping to spread the word about it. John Paul was so amazing!

It would be wonderful, Emmett, if the Second Pentecost happened during this year of faith! What you said about Benedict being spared the trials makes me wonder if he may not live much longer. Not that I hope for that! Just the opposite! But the words "I am coming quickly" maybe might mean that Jesus is coming soon to take him to heaven.
God bless everyone here. I'm praying for you all!

VTA said...

Completely agree, except that I don't know on what basis you say the thousand years "is not to be" taken literally. It may or may not be literal. Some numbers/years in the Bible are quite literal.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Sr. Lorraine,

I read that piece on your blog about St. John Bosco' dream of the two pillars. I've been thinking about this a lot too. I always wondered how a new pope could be elected to almost coincide with the death of his predescessor, given the canonical rules concerning papal conclaves. The fact that this has been the only papal abdication in almost 600 years makes this a singularly unique time for this to be even possible.
I pray with Sr. Lorraine that this does not happen. I'm not willing to let go of Benedict XVI, and his unique wisdom and advice would greatly benefit the new Holy Father. But the words of Don Bosco still reverberate...

Emmett O'Regan said...

The Catechism, which is of the very highest teaching authority of the Magesterium of the Catholic Church, doesn't leave any room for maneuver on millenarianism/ chialism whatsoever. It spells it out in no uncertain terms:

The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected EVEN MODIFIED FORMS of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism."
(CCC 676)

I believe it does so because this is the very highest deception of the Antichrist - that man can create paradise on earth through his own actions. This is the very first temptation of the Devil:

"But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
(Genesis 3:4-5)

VTA said...

of course there's no question of man created anything resembling a paradise or any kind of peace on earth. that indeed is Satan's deception. the question is, what does God intend to do to fulfill prophecies? i don't believe the millennium is/was the "Church Age", and neither did many of the early Church Fathers (most of them, before Augustine), so this is a respectable position, except that it's out of favor now.
the Catechism is a book; authoritative of course, but the highest teaching authority is the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and i'd like to see something from it that says when "the millennium" happens. i can't produce a reference at the moment, but i read that the CDF itself has said that there has never been any definitive teaching on the subject.
I believe the catechism is addressing the question of a realization of the Kingdom by human efforts, or politics, which is absurd.

Dave said...

Emmett,
I don't think that the position of Fr. Iannuzzi, for example, falls under the positions condemned by the Church (not sure whether you were even saying it does.) Admittedly, it is the minority position.

VTA said...

thanks, Dave, i wasn't aware of Fr Iannuzzi. a quick Google brought me to http://liturgyanddevotion.blogspot.com/2011/07/time-is-short-fr-joseph-iannuzzi.html

... which says: "The Millenium doctrine (not to be confused with Millenerianism that has been ruled out by the Church) is little known in the conventional sphere of the Catholic Church today; but its study was made known to Joseph Ratzinger when he was prefect of CDF--who left open the possibility of further investigation of this doctrine."

There's no way i can verify the above at the moment, but i like what it says about Millenarianism vs "doctrine of the Millennium."

Anonymous said...

When heaven AND earth merge, we will have the Era of Peace. God never intended for JUST the earth to be renewed. This will happen after the Second Coming.

Emmett O'Regan said...

The highest teaching authority of the Church is the Pope. The Catechism of the Catholic Church was promulgumated by Pope John Paul II in the Apostolic Constitution Fidei depositum ("Deposit of the Faith"). An Apostolic Constitution is the highest level of decree issued by the Pope. So this is of a higher order than any publications coming from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
This portion of the Catechism was authored by Card. Ratzinger, then head of the Doctrine for the Congregation of the Faith. It is in part a critique of the concept of "immanentizing the eschaton" (Voegelin), and also the theology of Jesuit theologian Tielhard de Chardin.
It states that the final victory of the Church will only take place in it following Christ in enduring a passion of its very own, before the final Resurrection of the Dead at the Last Jugdment:

"The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection. The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God's victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven. God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgement after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world"
(CCC 677)

It is this final passion of the Church which was seen by the three shepherd children in the Third Secret of Fatima. The way of Christ is the way of the Cross, and we will only be able to truly experience the true peace of Christ beyond this world in the Beatific Vision.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Dave,

You're right. I said I do respect Fr. Iannuzzi's position. But just that this is very much the minority position. This is because it places too much emphasis on the importance of this world, which the domain of the Evil One. It is the next world which really counts.

VTA said...

Being in a minority doesn't concern me so much right now as does the question of what is permissible to believe. Here's a quote from Fr Iannuzzi:
" 'The Teaching of the Catholic Church', which bears the Church's required seals and was published in 1952 by a theological commission of qualified experts, clearly states that it is not contrary to Catholic teaching to believe or profess 'a hope in some mighty triumph of Christ here on earth before the final consummation of all things. Such an occurrence is not excluded, is not impossible, it is not all certain that there will not be a prolonged period of triumphant Christianity before the end.' " (The Triumph of God's Kingdom…, Fr. Iannuzzi - p. 75)

Emmett O'Regan said...

Fr. Iannuzzi's work has not been condemned up to the present, because he attempts to make a distinction between Christ physically reigning on earth (which is straight chiliasm), by asserting that he will reign eucharistically from heaven for a "1000" years, which is for him an extended period of indefinite length. For me, I would classify his work under the "modified forms" of millenarianism mentioned by the Catechism. No one at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has done so yet, so it would theoretically be possible to hold to Fr. Iannuzzi's position as he qualifies it until it is formally condemned. But it is on the very edge of heresy, and could be condemned at any time.
The Catechism is the highest level of teaching authority you will find on this subject, and requires religious assent:

"Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a "definitive manner," they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals. To this ordinary teaching the faithful "are to adhere to it with religious assent" which, though distinct from the assent of faith, is nonetheless an extension of it."
(CCC 892)

Dave said...

I'm off to Mass in a few minutes, but later, I'll provide several quotes from recent Popes in which they seem to anticipate "a prolonged period of triumphant Christianity" on this Earth before the "end of the world." Even Pope John Paul II's expectation of a "new springtime" arguably falls into this category.

VTA said...

Given the way several apparitions, now accepted, have been handled by some Church authorities, I don't really hold with anticipated condemnations. If such a condemnation takes place, I will certainly accept it. There are many people anticipating condemnations of Medjugorje, Garabandal, Fr Gobbi, etc. There are people who still don't accept La Salette. I'll have to read Fr Iannuzzi's book before I have any more to say on this subject, if anything (unlikely) Peace!

Emmett O'Regan said...

The Book of Revelation states that the "period of triumphant Christianity" - which is the Second Pentecost, will be inaugurated by the Two Witnesses (Rev 11) - one of whom will be the Elijah promised in Mal 4, who will "turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers”.
(Mal 4:6). The Book of Revelation goes on to state that once their testimony is complete, the Two Witnesses will be killed by "the beast that rises from the bottomless pit" (Rev 11:7). So if the era of peace was to last for a thousand years, the Two Witnesses would have to live for a thousand years before being killed by the Antichrist. Proposing that human beings can or should live here on earth for with life-times spanning a thousand years is a very grave idolization of the flesh, and a rejection of the Kingdom of Heaven. This is the heresy of chiliasm and the deception of the Antichrist. When the Antichrist comes, this is what he will offer. The Antichrist will set himself against God and offer to establish his own ever-lasting kingdom here on earth, and propose that this was our ultimate destiny - to "become as gods" (Gen 3).

I know that this is not what yourselves are proposing, and I do respect your beliefs (which is very optimistic). In fact I once held similar views before I realised that the Book of Revelation constantly recapitulates itself, and shouldn't be read as a chronologically linear narrative. It needs to be deconstructed and reassembled according to thematic content in order to be better understood. The more I study, the more I find that both Scripture and Tradition (as well as approved private revelations), are all singularly clear that the Church must undergo a final passion after the Second Pentecost, which will lead to the end of the world. The Second Pentecost will come to strenghten us for the final hour, when the
Church will be crucified under the new Nero. But the Second Pentecost will not remain for a thousand years. Christ states that once the Gospel is proclaimed to all nations in the Second Pentecost, then the end will come:

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."
(Matt 24:14)

I think that the best we can hope for is that the Second Pentecost will last a very long time, in order to prepare us for the final trial.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Bear in mind that Fr. Iannuzzi's work is only the opinion of one man, and that his views go against the vast majority of Catholicism's best theologians. The Catechism is the work of many highly educated figures within the Church, working together in way that we are taught, and I fully believe is inspired by the Holy Spirit.
A really good concise outline of mainstream orthodox Catholic belief on the subject of the millennium is given by Jimmy Akin below, who is a respected writer for the National Catholic Register:

There is no single mandated interpretation of all the details in this passage. However, one authentically Catholic interpretation of the passage might run as follows:

"Early in the Christian age, Satan was bound (20:1-2) for "a thousand years," signifying a long but indefinite period (just as the assertion that God owns "the cattle on a thousand hills" means he own the cattle on all the hills—a large but indeterminate number).

Jesus himself had promised the binding of the devil—the "strong man"—as a precondition for the spreading of the gospel (Mt 12:29 in context). In Revelation, the devil is depicted as shut up and sealed in the abyss (v. 3a). Incorporeal spirits such as the devil do not actually occupy space and cannot be "shut up" in spatial reasons, so the meaning of this is that he can no more deceive the "nations" (or "gentiles"—the word is the same in Greek) until the thousand years is over (3b).

The result is that the gospel can be preached and spread until that time. Afterwards, there will be an apostasy among the nations/gentiles, when the devil will be able to deceive them into turning against the true God (3c).

In the meantime, God has set up the thrones of the saints in heaven (cf. 4:4)—especially those who had withstood the persecutions of the early Church and been beheaded under the pagan emperors. They spiritually came to life and reigned with Christ in heaven for the duration of the millennium (20:4). The dead as a whole, however, were not resurrected until after the millennium (5a).

The spiritual resurrection experienced by the saints in heaven is known as "the first resurrection" (5b), and it signifies that one will not be cast into hell to experience "the second death" (6).

After the millennium, the devil, released from his bondage, is again able to deceive the nations/gentiles and gather them against God's people (7–8). But they are destroyed by Christ at the Second Coming and cast into hell (9–10)."

http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/does-the-church-teach-that-the-prophecy-of-revelation-201-10-is-being-fulfilled-now

Dave said...

As far as this debate, I would refer people to this very interesting article, entitled "How the Era Was Lost":

http://www.markmallett.com/blog/2012/03/how-the-era-was-lost/

Dave said...

As far as the promised quotes from the Popes, I'll simply refer to this article:

http://www.markmallett.com/blog/2010/09/the-popes-and-a-dawning-new-age/

Anonymous said...

Has anyone ever pondered why Jesus selects the very humble to receive divine messages and visions? No offense to theologians, but they question too many things that their human intellect cannot comprehend. We have to allow the Holy Spirit to guide us because as humans, we cannot understand everything, especially in regards to the Book of Revelation. Jesus said to St. Faustina that He could educate her on a subject in one day that would take an ordinary person, say 30 years to comprehend. I think we need to set aside our intellects and allow the Holy Spirit to instruct our souls.

joerusso777 said...

I understand that some have a different interpretation on eschatology and such, but I hope we're not getting into a conversation about whether Mr. O'Regan is humble or "Holy" enough to understand what has long been studied by many Saints throughout Christianity.

I've been following this blog for over a year now and have never once got the impression that Emmett has been arrogant or not humble about his work.

Yes God does use the very humble and uneducated to deliver some messages, but let's not forget the many Saints who were very bright and educated theologians and such who were also delivered messages and given great wisdom and understanding of God. St. Thomas Aquinas comes to mind here.

My point is, debates are healthy but please don't start talking about whether someone is humble enough to understand things of God. If you want to take that approach, not a single one of us could claim that except for God himself.

If I misunderstood the comment then forgive me, but that's just how it sounded to me.

We also have theologians and such for a reason. They uncover great mysteries that otherwise most can't. Yes the important fact of letting the Holy Spirit guide us is important, but great minds can be guided by the Holy Spirit as well.

Sr. Lorraine said...

Today at lunch we were talking about Pope Benedict, and that the last pope to resign 600 years ago did so to heal the great Western schism.
In light of what Emmett has been saying here about the schism of East/West, wouldn't it be amazing if Pope Benedict's resignation were indeed to lead to the healing of that great schism. I hadn't thought of it in that light before.

joerusso777 said...

Interesting point Sister! I wondered if there was any significant thing to happen with the last abdication like this.

Anonymous said...

Yes, Joe, you misunderstood my point. I was not referring to Emmett. The great theologians that have been given divine messages/visions were also humble. It comes to a point where humans must understand that we can't understand everything. Some things were meant to be mysteries. Jesus likes humble souls because the sin of pride is absent.

Sr. Lorraine said...

Hello Joe,
Do you mean in reference to signs in the sky? I don't know the answer to that. There was a solar eclipse in June 1415 (the pope resigned in July that year), but eclipses are regularly occurring events. If I come across anything I'll put it in a comment here.

joerusso777 said...

Sorry Sister...I was actually just saying that I had been wondering about something along the lines you stated, but it would add to the intrigue if you did come across something else. :-)

Anon, again forgive me for the way I understood your statement.

Anonymous said...


Emmett:
"The more I study, the more I find that both Scripture and Tradition (as well as approved private revelations), are all singularly clear that the Church must undergo a final passion after the Second Pentecost, which WILL LEAD TO THE END OF THE WORLD. The Second Pentecost will come to strengthen us for the final hour, when the Church will be crucified under the new Nero. But the Second Pentecost will not remain for a thousand years. Christ states that once the Gospel is proclaimed to all nations in the Second Pentecost, then the end will come:"...

I love the discussion and your blog Emmett but I can't believe you disagree with Father Iannuzzi?

The messages from Heaven have said
for years, Jesus is not returning in His person "soon" as some believe, His reign is going to be spiritual during the Millennium, the new time of God, it is the Eucharistic reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ. St. Bernard said Jesus' "middle coming" is
spiritual. There will be divine signs and wonders during the Great
Tribulation and during the Millennium, however long it is...

The world doesn't go from the Second Pentecost (the Great Warning and after bringing people to the faith), the Church and her Passion/Calvary and next comes the end of the world.

Sr. Lorraine said...

Another detail that struck me about the columns is that the second one says "Salus credentium--salvation of believers." Again, could this be a reference to the year of faith somehow? Or at least an indication that in these critical times for the Church, faith will be attacked and shaken.

Sr. Lorraine said...

Emmett, I was looking in the Biographical Memoirs of St. John Bosco (we have the whole set in our convent library) and found a detail about the dream of the two columns that seems very interesting.

The account appears in vol. 7, pp. 107-110)
It startled me to find out there's a possibility that three popes, not just two, were involved in the dream. Don Bosco told this to his boys on May 26, 1862. The book states that the dream was recorded by 4 people: "The clerics [John]Boggero, [Secundus]Merlone, and [Dominic] Ruffino, and a layman, Caesar Chiala." The four manuscripts agree except for the omission of some details. They wrote it from memory since they weren't stenographers! There's a paragraph I hadn't seen before in the dream that says "The flagship commander--the Roman Pontiff--seeing the enemy's fury and his auxiliary ships' very grave predicament, summons his captains to a conference. However, as they discuss their strategy, a furious storm breaks out and they must return to their ships. When the storm abates, the Pope again summons his captains as the flagship keeps on its course. But the storm rages again. Standing at the helm, etc."

The author of the memoirs, Fr Giovanni Lemoyne, says after relating the dream, that some inevitable differences in remembering it would remain. "Some claimed that the popes who successively commanded the flagship were three, not two. This was the opinion of Canon John maria Bourlot, former pastor of Cambiano, Turin, who in 1862, as a philosophy student, was present at Don Bosco's narration of the dream. In 1886, he visited the Oratory. At dinner, reminiscing with Don Bosco about the old days, he began to narrate the dream of the two columns, stating unequivocally that TWO popes had fallen [ie. before the one who finally steered the ship to victory.] He [Fr Bourlot] explained that, when the first was struck down, the captains of the other ships exclaimed, "Let's hurry! We can quickly replace him': whereas when they gathered a second time they did not say that.
"While Canon Bourlot was speaking, the author of these memoirs was talking with the one next to him at table. Noticing this, Don Bosco said to him, 'Listen carefully to what Father Bourlot is saying.'
"When he replied that he was well acquainted with the matter, thanks to the manuscripts in his possession, and that he believed there had been two popes--no more--on the flagship, Don Bosco rejoined, 'You know nothing at all!'"

"On another visit to the Oratory in 1907, Fr. Bourlot gave another proof of his excellent memory. Forty-eight years after he had first heard that dream he repeated it in its entirety, again maintaining that there had been THREE popes in all and recalling our former argument on his assertion and Don Bosco's statement.
"In view of the above, which of the two versions is correct? Events may still resolve the doubt. We shall conclude by saying that Caesar Chiala--as he himself told us--and the three above-mentioned clerics took this dream as a genuine vision and prophecy, even though Don Bosco in telling it seemed to have no other purpose than spurring the boys to pray for the Church and the Pope and fostering their devotion to the Blessed Sacrament and Mary Immaculate."

So, if there were indeed three popes, maybe they were John Paul II, Benedict, and the new pope we will have shortly?

I also found this link from a talk by a Salesian priest about the dream, but he seems a little skeptical about its prophetic value:
http://www.bosconet.aust.com/2columns.html

Anonymous said...

I didn't paste the rest of my comments. I shared the same in an earlier thread.

"We're near the end of the 6th Day, the prophesied Great Warning is "soon" which includes God's warning of the anti-Christ and his evil. God protects the Remnant during the Anti-Christ's persecution. After the Chastisement, God renews the earth, God's 7th Day is the millennial reign of Christ. The 8th Day, the last battle with Satan and Our Lord returns for the Final Judgment."



Anonymous said...

We must behave like little children in these times, and ask God The Father, "Daddy", to teach us, care for us, and be our leader on the rightous path to eternity with Him. He will always answer this prayer from His little child.

miltonic rhetoric said...

Emmett et al.,

The Catechism is condemning Millenarianism, which teaches that Christ will reign on this earth in the flesh for a literal period of 1,000 years prior to the Second Coming. This indeed is heresy. But this is not what is meant by the Millennium. There is a difference between the Millennium and Millenarianism.

As far as I know, the Church has told us what the Millennium is not, but she has not ruled definitively on what the Millennium is exactly.

Father Iannuzzi says this regarding the Millennium in his book (Triumph of God's Kingdom in the Millennium and End Times):

"A few years ago, Fr. Martino Penasa, an eminent theologian, presented this eschatological matter of Christ's millenary reign (not millenarianism) to Cardinal Ratzinger, who reassured him that the matter is still open to discussion: 'Giacche la Santa Sede non si e ancora pronunciata in modo definitivo" [the Holy See has not yet made any definitive pronouncement in this regard]."

Also, in the work The Teachings of the Catholic Church: A Summary of Catholic Doctrine (1952), which bears the Church's required seals, it is stated:

"The point of division between the legitimate aspirations of such devout believers and...false millenarism is this: the Chiliasts - as believers in the mellennium are called, from the Greek word for a thousand - seem to expect a coming of Christ and a presence of him in glory and majesty ON THIS EARTH which would NOT be the consummation of all thing but would still be a portion of the history of mankind. This is not consonant Catholic dogma...The coming of Christ in the Second Advent...is the consummation of all things, the end of human history. IF BEFORE THAT FINAL END there is to be A PERIOD, MORE OR LESS PROLONGED, of triumphant sanctity, such a result will be BROUGHT ABOUT, not by the apparition of the Person of Christ in Majesty but by the operation of those powers of sanctification which ARE NOW at work, the Holy Ghost and the Sacraments of the Church. The Chiliasts of all times...and there are many to be found even to date, seem to despair, not only of the world, but even of that dispensation of grace which was inaugurated at Pentecost; they expect from the VISIBLE PRESENCE of Christ a complete conversion of the world, as if such a happy result could not be otherwise brought about.

Anonymous said...

Millenarianism is FALSE. Jesus isn't coming in His person until the Final Judgment.

The Era of Peace, the new time, Jesus is returning spiritually to reign here, in our hearts. Remember, St. Bernard said the same. It will be the Eucharistic
reign of Our Lord in ALL hearts.

Father Iannuzzi proved God's plan for the end times without private revelation referring to the Church Fathers and Holy Scripture even though he is an expert on private
revelation and has a devotion to the messages from Heaven.

The 7th Day of God is the Millennium, how ever long it is...

Most everyone here accepts the great value of the messages from
Heaven.

Jamey said...

To all the anons -1,2,3, Dave, Milton Rhetoric for a long time I believed there would be some chastisements followed by a long era of peace possibly a millenium. Ned Dougherty (predicted 9/11), Howard Storm (predicted end of the cold war when an end didn't appear in sight) seem to suggest just that from their near death experience visions. (or perhaps they were seeing the New Earth?). Likewise the 3 days of darkness prophecies can be interpreted more literally that after chastisement there will be a genuine peace on earth where the spirit of God will reside in mans heart.

The big thing that has changed for me is my understanding at the end of time and before our Lord's second coming the Antichrist will reign on earth. What we see in our society is the signs that the Antichrist is about to make his way on the world scene:

- The modern development of television, internet and general media.
- The anti-Christian bias generally conveyed.
- Establishment of Hate Crimes which will eventually target "intolerant" Christians.
- The worshipping and idolisation of rock musicians/celebrities almost all with an anti-Christian view/lifestyle that will be the slippery slope for the worship of the Antichrist.
- The violation of the right for life in particular the scale of abortion we now witness which I couldnt see matched.
- The changes in the liturgy that have brought about the great apostasy within the Catholic Church which will lead to the Antichrist's reign prophesied (by St Bridget of Sweden for example amongst others). The Antichrist wouldn't get a foot in a relatively strong Catholic Christian society so this had to happen first.
- The Novus Ordo as the end times spiritual abomination of desolation.
- The pressures to move to a cashless society coupled with internet enabled banking technology on mobile phones leading to the eventual realisation of the mark of the beast (I couldn't possibly see anything else coming close to the mark of the beast).

With all these developments and their convergence with specific prophecies I find it hard to see that the Antichrist will not shortly reign. And if he does the end is nigh as that is surely when the decisive battle takes place.

Jamey said...

Also to add Pope Paul VI, and then Cardinal Ratzinger in 1984 said the 3rd Secret of Fatima concerns the end times. I don't think the 3rd secret is relating to something in the future a millenium away, and likewise I can't see the "end times" as a statement taken in context an event stretching over 1000 years.

Emmett O'Regan said...

"Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world — the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life — is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.
Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.
(1 John 2:15-18)

Emmett O'Regan said...

I'll have to leave this discussion after this to focus on other matters. But consider the following points:

In the Gospels, Christ said that he would bind the power of the "strong man" - Satan, in order to allow the Gospel to spread (Matt 12), so that the Devil could not blind unbelievers to the truth (2Cor 4:4). This is the binding of Satan which St. John seen in the Apocalypse (Rev 20). Although it has not been formally enshrined as dogma, the Church has upheld the amillennialist position since St. Augustine of Hippo in the 5th century, who is a doctor of the Church.
The binding of Satan does not mean that evil would not exist, merely that the power of the Devil would be weakened, to allow the Gospel to spread. Christ said that the tares would exist alongside the wheat until the end of time:

"He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away. So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”
(Matt 13:24-30)

The Book of Revelation states that at the end of this "thousand years" (which represents a long time corresponding to the period of the Church), the Devil would once again be unleashed to have the power to blind people to the faith, and that this would cause great wars and the falling away of many from the faith. This is the Great Apostasy spoken of in Scripture, which we are now experiencing, and was seen in Pope Leo XIII's vision.
St. Paul stated that this rebellion would give rise to the appearance of the Antichrist:

"Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction"
(2 Thess 2:3)

The fruit of the rebellion/Great Apostasy is the birth of the Antichrist, as was seen in St. Hildegard's vision:

http://unveilingtheapocalypse.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/prophecy-of-st-hildegard-on-great.html

But we are told that before the Antichrist comes, a great grace will be given, and the Two Witnesses will come to restore the Church. They will then be put to death by the Antichrist (just as Ss. Peter and Paul were put to death under Nero). And if you study the approved private revelations concerning the Angelic Pope, he is almost aways followed by the appearance of the Antichrist. (For example in the prophecies of Bl. Anna Maria Taigi).
Anyway, as I said, I'll have to concentrate now on other things, so I'll have to leave you to debate this further amongst yourselves.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Sr. Lorraine,

That's a great insight about the pillars in St. John Bosco's dream! I hadn't thought about that: "Salus credentium--salvation of believers." It certainly makes sense that this is connected to the Second Pentecost, and it would be an amazing fit if this tied into the Year of Faith!
Thanks for pointing out the possibility of three popes in St. John Bosco's dream. I wasn't aware of that. This is worth some careful study. I think we will know a lot more about St. John Bosco's dream in a few weeks time, with the election of the next pope. These are exciting times for the Church! I hope and pray that the New Springtime will arrive this Spring!

Dave said...

Emmett,
I hope that the long Era of Peace interpretation is correct (and I would note that this does not preclude the Antichrist from coming.) But regardless, it seems that we are soon going to find out which sequence of events is correct.

Sr. Lorraine said...

Thanks, Emmett, I too am praying that the new springtime will arrive soon!
St. John Bosco would be a good saint to ask for intercession during this time. The intro to the memoirs states that he was very devoted to the Pope, and Bosco's work could be summed up as being dedicated to the Pope. Also, his mother as a teen saw Pope Pius VII in Turin, on his way to Paris for the self-coronation of Napoleon. She was very religious and probably her piety inspired John with papal devotion too.

One other note: p. 354 of vol. 7 of the Memoirs, recounts that Don Bosco talked to the boys inspiring them to grow in holiness. He doesn't present this as a dream, but more like a meditation. He uses the image of the two pillars, but this time the wording is different: "On one is written Regina mundi [Queen of the world] and on the other Panis vitae [Bread of life]..... The two columns symbolize the Blessed Virgin Mary and the Blessed Sacrament. It is they who really sustain the world...." So it's interesting that this talk which contains his spiritual thoughts has a different wording from the prophetic dream or vision.

Rescued by Mary said...


WellAware1.com

Jamey said...

Dave said...
"Emmett,
I hope that the long Era of Peace interpretation is correct..."

There are certainly some reasonable prophecies out there that seem to suggest this so not completely out of the ballpark. Some of the great chastisement prophecies do seem to indicate survivors. I personally have great certitude there will be a chastisement but less certainty around some of the other variables.

Prophecy can be categorised in one of the following:
- Highly certain
- Likely
- Possible but not sure
- Unlikely
- Highly unlikely

VTA said...

"I and every other orthodox Christian feel certain that there will be a resurrection of the flesh followed by a thousand years in a rebuilt, embellished, and enlarged city of Jerusalem, as was announced by the Prophets Ezekiel, Isaias and others… A man among us named John, one of Christ’s Apostles, received and foretold that the followers of Christ would dwell in Jerusalem for a thousand years, and that afterwards the universal and, in short, everlasting resurrection and judgment would take place."
St. Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, Ch. 81, The Fathers of the Church, Christian Heritage

joerusso777 said...

My advice to anybody on this blog, but especially those that may be in disagreement with things that are posted by Emmett, is to read his book. Everything he posts here only adds on to what he writes in the book.
You be amazed at how he comes to these conclusions and it'll be hard to disagree with how they all fit together.

miltonic rhetoric said...

VTA,

I have always been struck by that passage from the Dialogue with Trypho, especially the sentence:

"A man among us named John, one of Christ's Apostles, received and foretold that the followers of Christ would dwell in Jerusalem for a thousand years, and that AFTERWARDS the universal and, in short, everlasting resurrection and judgement would take place."

I am also struck by what the early Ecclesiastical Writer Lactantius wrote:

"Since all the works of God were completed in six days, the world must continue in its present state through six ages, that is, six thousand years. For the great Day of God is limited by a circle of a thousand years, as the prophet shows, who says: 'In Thy sight, O Lord, a thousand years are as one day' (Ps. 89:4). And as God labored during those six days in creating such great works, so His religion and truth must labor during these six thousand years, while wickedness prevails and bears rule. And again, since God, having finished His works, rested on the seventh day and blessed it, at the end of the six thousandth year all wickedness must be abolished from the earth, and righteousness REIGN for a thousand years; and there must be tranquility and rest from the labors which the world now long has endured." (The Divine Institutes)

VTA said...

Yes... I have nothing to add to this discussion, since apparently this blog is an extension of the owner's book, and I don't want to be disruptive. And, in fact, I have nothing further to say. I am going to continue studying this subject, and I'm (clearly) not in the amillennial camp.

Emmett O'Regan said...

VTA,

You're not being disruptive at all. In fact I think it's good that readers can see both views, since "the doctrine of the millennium" (as Fr. Iannuzzi terms it) it is clearly a very entrenched and deep seated belief. I can totally understand where you are coming from. I just want to underscore that for Catholics, amillennism has been the almost exclusive take on this subject since St. Augustine (with the exception of Fr. Iannuzzi).
I'll point you to some good online resources on this topic, and a few book suggestions as well.

joerusso777 said...

VTA
My point was not to say any of you were being disruptive or are wrong. I was only stating how good of a book he's written. I was never trying to say anything other than that. Your views are respected from me and others.
My apologies if you felt differently. I'll have to be more careful what I write I guess, for it could be interpreted in different ways from readers. Sorry.

Emmett O'Regan said...

VTA,

Just wanted to point you towards a few other sites to help with your research on the millennium. First, I think it is a good idea to start with the basics. The Catholic Encylcopaedia gives a very detailed, yet concise article, elaborating how many of the Early Church fathers adhered to this doctrine below:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10307a.htm

Carl E. Olson's book is also very good:

"Will Catholics Be "Left Behind"? A Catholic Critique of the Rapture and Today’s Prophecy Preachers" (Ignatius Press, 2003).

Also, someone who's work I respect immensely, and who I think has an enormous level of insight concerning prophetic events is Mark Mallet - who holds a very similar "doctrine of the millennium" view of the eschaton that you and Miltonic, et al hold to. Even though I would disagree with Mark Mallet on his chronology of the millennium, I still think his site is exceptional, and if you follow this, I'm sure you won't be guided too far from the truth:

http://www.markmallett.com/blog/2012/03/how-the-era-was-lost/#more-7947

I just want readers to be aware that amillennialism has been the widely accepted Catholic view since St. Augustine, and makes the most sense to the chronology I attempt to plot in the book.

miltonic rhetoric said...

Emmett,

Yes, I agree, Mark Mallett is an excellent commentator - one who balances himself nicely on the fine line that is this topic of the Millennium.

Reverend Iannuzzi is also a fine mind and a great scholar, although I do take exception with his associating with of late and his approval of the work of Vassula Ryden, whose work I find suspect.

And you Emmett are to be commended for your excellent commentary on this subject.

One thing that I have wondered about, though, is the following question: If the currently popular (but by no means definitive) interpretation of the Millennium is the current Church Age (the time from the Incarnation to the Second Coming) is correct, then who was the False Prophet and when was he defeated. I will submit that not all parts of the Book of Revelation are chronological but Chapters 19-20 do appear to be chronological, and they describe the literal defeat and destruction of the False Prophet and the Beast, who are thrown into the fiery pool. Following the False Prophet and the Beast's destruction, the Millennium commences, towards the end of which Satan is loosed and Gog-Magog make war on the camp of the saints.

I believe that the False Prophet is someone yet to come. And for this reason I am led to believe that the Millennium (which in my opinion is synonymous with the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart promised at Fatima) is also yet to come.

Anonymous said...

Reading Father Iannuzzi's view of the
end times and the Millenium, they line up with the messages from Heaven. I liked his tribute to
Father Gobbi and his comments included about preparing for the times ahead. You all have probably
read it.

Mark Mallett explains things clearly and simply and I believe he "hears" from Our Lord.

There is an Irish messenger, Anna Marie of Divine Mercy, she is the ONLY current messenger/seer to
state in her messages, the next Pope will be a bad Pope, he is the False Prophet. If this isn't reason enough, Mark Mallet recently explains why she is not a true messenger. There's more to Mark's article, Malachy's prophecies, etc, it's a wonderful writing.

In the same writing...

Mark speaks of the messages at http://www.locutions.org/
Mark knows a very holy priest
who was given almost the same as this seer but the priest had no
knowledge of the locutions.org messages!

The name of Mark Mallett's writing is ~ Possible...or Not? (Feb 2013)

http://www.markmallett.com/blog/2013/02/entering-perilous-times/#more-10062

Emmett O'Regan said...

Miltonic,

Given that some of Vassula Ryden's prophecies have been accurate (such as those concerning 9/11), I feel that this could rule out fraud. So this would make her revelations either supernatural or preternatural (therefore possibly demonic) in origin. If the latter, then we have to be very careful indeed. I think that Christina Gallagher would fall into a similar category. Only the Church authorities have all the relevant material at hand however to determine whether they are supernatural in origin, which is why its always best to look to the Church for guidance.
I argue at some length that the False Prophet was Adolf Hitler. The Book of Revelation describes the False Prophet as an anti-Elijah figure, and therefore a forerunner to the Antichrist. The Apocalypse also links the False Prophet to the Little Horn of the Book of Daniel, which was in large part, a prophecy concerning Antiochus IV Epiphanes - a persecutor of Jews. I believe that the False Prophet and the Antichrist are modelled after Antiochus Epiphanes and Nero - the first persecutor of Christians. So just as there was a Jewish Holocaust under the False Prophet, I think that the Antichrist will preside over a future Christian Holocaust - which was foreseen in the Third Secret of Fatima.
I believe that chapter 20 recapitulates chapter 19, as well as various other portions of the Book of Revelation, and we need to read these side-by-side as synchronus events to flesh out a fuller picture, and "de-code" the Apocalypse.
This would mean that on a symbolic level, the Holy City (the Church) is already being surrounded by the forces of Satan, and that the fire which comes down from heaven to destroy them is the baptism of fire in the Holy Spirit, during the Second Pentecost. This could be what Pope Leo XIII saw in his vision, when he was shown demons converging on the city of Rome.
Rev 20 also appears to have another layer of interpretation possibly involving a literal future invasion of Israel, and therefore seems to recapitulate the battle of Armageddon described in Rev 16.

Thanks for pointing to Mark Mallet's latest post Anon. It's very insightful, as always...

Anonymous said...

Did you Bennett, or anyone take the time
to read Mark Mallett's recent writing?

Possible...or Not? (Feb 2013) I posted the link.

It is very good, important to read.
I wish someone would reply.

The Second Pentecost begins with the prophesied Great Warning of Garabandal.

Father Iannuzzi who is brilliant sees the value of yet to be approved private revelation.

The messages from Heaven approved and yet to be approved help us better understand the times we are living in.

If there is disagreement, we can
still discuss.

CommonCents said...

Time will tell VERY soon as to which prophecies are true. We will be getting direction, no doubt, from Heaven. These are the End Times, and many things in scripture should be revealed to us from Heaven as man does not have the capabilities to do such things. Expect the unexpected from Heaven, NOW.

Anonymous said...

Reading these posts that are so dead-set against MDM messages. This old Catholic gal has prayed MANY novenas about the authenticity of these messages. And God's voice was pretty clear that they are TRUE. So all you guys are saying that God's answer to my prayers was false? You are disregarding many people's answered prayers concerning these messages. Mark Mallett does not have all the answers. Do not disregard answered NOVENA PRAYERS!

joerusso777 said...

Real quick on MDM
22. (Jesus on Nov 12, 2010) “I want you to publish it around the world. It must be large, powerful and sought out by millions just like the Holy Bible.”
23. (Jesus on March 18, 2011) “Respect this most Holy Scripture.”
24. (Jesus on Oct 13, 2011) “I must inform you of the need to refrain from defending My Most Holy Word.”

These are heretical statements. This and also the fact that this site predicted the warning to happen in 2011 and then when it didn't deleted the posts should put up huge red flags. Jesus in these statements puts this book she's writing in the same respect as the Bible, these things alone should cause one to flee from these.
Also it is impossible for a "validly" elected Pope to teach against Faith and morals. This was infallibly declared. These writings about the Pope being a false prophet and teaching falsely while validly elected is also heresy.

Nobody has any doubt that we'll meaning Catholics has prayed very hard about these things, but none of us lay faithful have the gift the Church does to discern these matters. Please be very careful.

Sr. Lorraine said...

I agree that the Maria Divine Mercy messages are suspect and think it's best to avoid them. They could be diabolical in origin, and in that case, the devil is very clever. He knows how to mix in just the right amount of truth in order to deceive people all the more.

Anonymous said...

I remember two other messengers, the Two Patricks in their messages stated Pope Benedict XVI was evil!
Very sad, the seers who may start out holy are waylaid by Satan.

Still, do not dismiss the great value of current prophecy, the daily messages strengthen our faith. They give us hope. God is not silent. You can but do not ignore current private revelation. Who knows how long until Church approval? The divine events prophesied haven't taken place yet and certain messages are about fallen away consecrated sons, who maybe the very ones to approve. The Church must wait, in the mean time, pray and discern, any words which go against the faith, the supposed prophet is done.

Sharing the most recent message at locutions.org, Our Lord and His mother speak of the importance of prophecy and about the new Pope.

+ + +

February 27, 2013

5. The Messenger Pope

The Resignation As A Sign


Jesus

How much time has been lost. The gifts of God set aside. So many times I have spoken to my servants, the prophets. I have given them heavenly messages for all the world to hear. I entrusted these messages to my Church, my bride. To whom else would I given them? She has come forth from my side. She is the new Eve. I would not give these messages to another. I want my bride to be exalted. Yet, how haltingly she accepts my words. Years go by and she does not see the treasure lying in her very bosom. She delays and delays. She keeps hidden what should be proclaimed on the housetops.

No more. The time is too short. The need for my prophetic word is too pressing. I can no longer just send messengers. I must send a pope who himself is the messenger. To him I will speak, directly, heart to heart, even face to face. All the world will know that this pope is a prophet to the nations.

Mary

For so long I have kept this future pope in my bosom, hidden from the nations, yet called to be their light. I have trained him in my word and he has frequently brought it forth. He is no stranger to prophecy. He understands the gift. He is familiar with my voice.

Know that I am raising up much more than just a pope. I am lifting up a prophet to the nations. All the world will listen because he will not just speak a word of wisdom but a clear prophetic word. He is not shy or bashful. He will not hide the gift. He will not be lifted up to place the lamp under a bushel basket. He knows where my word belongs.

Suddenly, a new light will shine forth, a surprise, a new help for my children who are so confused by the darkness

Emmett O'Regan said...

Jimmy Akin gives a good piece on MDM at the below link:

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/9-things-you-need-to-know-about-maria-divine-mercy

The most important part of his article is the following:

"Should Catholics give credence to Maria Divine Mercy?

No. She is an anonymous, unapproved seer whose prophecies contain material that is both demonstrably false and contrary to Catholic teaching regarding the future.

Furthermore, to adhere to her prophecies can result in the grave sin and canonical crime of schism.

If, as soon as a new pope is elected, one were to regard him--as Maria Divine Mercy would have us regard him--as a false pope and the False Prophet, one would be in a state of schism.

According to the Code of Canon Law:

[S]chism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him [CIC 751].

This would have grave consequences for an individual, both spiritually and canonically, including possible automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication, since:

[A] schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication [CIC 1364 §1].

Which includes, among other things the inability to receive the sacraments until one repents of the schism and is restored to communion with the Church.

Under no circumstances should a Catholic become involved with or give any credence to the "messages" of Maria Divine Mercy.

May she herself find the grace to repudiate them, take them down, and alert her followers of their falseness."


Anonymous said...

Emmett,

The fathers of the church and as recently as Bishop Sheen had stated that the false prophet would be a bishop of the church. There is quite a difference in interpretation since you mentioned Hitler. I understood Hitler as being a form of antichrist.

Emmett O'Regan said...

I wouldn't rule out that the Antichrist will attempt to install a puppet bishop in Rome as "pope", while the true pontiff is forced into hiding or killed (or both). And that this may be a partial reflection of the False Prophet. But the main part of the prophecy concerning the False Prophet is based on the "Little Horn" of the Book of Daniel, and also foretells that he would cause the inhabitants of the earth to build an "image" in honour of the Beast - an "image" which is to be identified with the mark of the Beast. All modern computer technology (through which this prophecy is fulfilled) was developed in a direct response to Hitler's actions during the Second World War (e.g. the machines used to break the enigma code, programised gun turrets, etc.). So if Hitler really was the False Prophet, he really did cause the inhabitants of the earth to fashion for themselves an "image" or "mark" in honour of the Beast. The False Prophet is really just another antichrist figure, who is the precursor or forerunner to the final Antichrist. I think Hitler was the "Antichrist" mentioned in the approved 1851 verison of La Salette, who would fulfill the prophecies concerning this figure before "twice fifty years have gone by". The apparitions of Our Lady of La Salette occurred in 1846 - so before "twice fifty years have gone by" brings us to 1945.
I'm working on some material at the minute which I believe further confirms (almost undeniably so) that Hitler was the False Prophet.
But as I said, prophecies can have a "ripple effect", and a tendency to repeat themselves, so I wouldn't rule out another lesser puppet-bishop figure mirroring this role - but it would be dimly, and not the central fulfillment.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Emmett,

It is indeed interesting. The way I heard it was the false prophet ( bishop) would introduce the antichrist (jew) to the world, since a jew is supposed to fool the world's jews (and catholics by virtue of the bishop) that he is the christ. But I am open to possibilities. That's what I get for listening to tapes from Fr. John O'Conner and Fr. Miceli.