Tuesday 3 October 2017

Can a Pope Teach Heresy in his Ordinary Magiserium?


"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." (Matt 16:18-19)


In the wake of the publication of the Filial Correction on 24th September, 2017, many Catholics have been left in a state of deep confusion as to whether a validly elected Roman Pontiff can teach heresy as part of his Ordinary Magisterium. The Ordinary Magisterium is found in the day to day teachings of the Holy Father, issued through various encyclicals, apostolic constitutions, apostolic exhortations, etc., and although this particular exercise of the papal office is fallible in nature, and certain deficiencies may be present, all Catholics are bound to give their religious assent (the submission of will and intellect) to whatever is contained in the Ordinary Magisterium. This is distinct from the more binding assent of faith which is required for infallible pronouncements such as dogmas, or the contents of Sacred Scripture. As the Catechism states, there is a special Divine assistance given which protects the pope from teaching any errors which contradict faith or morals in the Ordinary Magisterium itself - a charism which is to be considered quite separately from the doctrine of papal infallibility, which is only very rarely exercised through ex cathedra pronouncements, or through the solemn definitions of ecumenical councils, etc. As the Catechism states:

Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a "definitive manner," they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals. To this ordinary teaching the faithful "are to adhere to it with religious assent" which, though distinct from the assent of faith, is nonetheless an extension of it. (CCC 892)

One must therefore take into account the proper character of every exercise of the Magisterium, considering the extent to which its authority is engaged. It is also to be borne in mind that all acts of the Magisterium derive from the same source, that is, from Christ who desires that His People walk in the entire truth. For this same reason, magisterial decisions in matters of discipline, even if they are not guaranteed by the charism of infallibility, are not without divine assistance and call for the adherence of the faithful. (Donum Veritatis 17)

So while there may be certain deficiencies present in the Ordinary Magisterium, the faithful are still required to submit their will and intellect to its higher prudential judgment by giving religious assent, and such deficiencies can never fall into error in matters of faith and morals through the promise of Divine assistance accorded to even these non-infallible pronouncements. As Lumen Gentium 25 states:

This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking.

In the CDF document Donum Veritatis, a special dispensation is given for trained theologians to withhold their religious assent from certain aspects of the Ordinary Magisterium they perceive to be potentially problematic, so that they can bring their findings and objections before the Magisterium for study and reflection. However, Donum Veritatis states that such non-assent should always be conducted privately, so as not to lead the faithful into confusion, and any dissenting theologians are instructed to avoid presenting their objections before the mass media:

"In cases like these, the theologian should avoid turning to the "mass media", but have recourse to the responsible authority, for it is not by seeking to exert the pressure of public opinion that one contributes to the clarification of doctrinal issues and renders servite to the truth."
(Donum Veritatis 30)

So since the authors of the Filial Correction have turned directly to the mass media in order to present their dissent to Amoris Laetitia (which is part of the Ordinary Magisterium of Pope Francis), this action was made in direct contravention of the guidelines for dissenting theologians outlaid in Donum Veritatis, and should therefore be considered illicit.

In banding together to form a "parallel-magisterium" which aims to "correct" the Ordinary Magisterium of Pope Francis, the authors of the Filial Correction have brought about a great source of confusion and harm to the faithful.

As to the "parallel magisterium", it can cause great spiritual harm by opposing itself to the Magisterium of the Pastors. Indeed, when dissent succeeds in extending its influence to the point of shaping; a common opinion, it tends to become the rule of conduct. This cannot but seriously trouble the People of God and lead to contempt for true authority. (Donum Veritatis 34)

Polling public opinion to determine the proper thing to think or do, opposing the Magisterium by exerting the pressure of public opinion, making the excuse of a "consensus" among theologians, maintaining that the theologian is the prophetical spokesman of a "base" or autonomous community which would be the source of all truth, all this indicates a grave loss of the sense of truth and of the sense of the Church. The Church "is like a sacrament, a sign and instrument, that is, of communion with God and of unity among all men". Consequently, to pursue concord and communion is to enhance the force of her witness and credibility. To succumb to the temptation of dissent, on the other hand, is to allow the "leaven of infidelity to the Holy Spirit" to start to work. (Donum Veritatis 39-40)

This false accusation railed against Pope Francis, claiming that he is teaching  or promoting heresy in part of his Ordinary Magisterium is in effect a denial of the one of the essential truths behind the teaching authority of the Roman Pontiff, who is granted Divine assistance which prevents him from erring in matters of faith and morals, even when teaching non-infallibly. If we are to reject this essential truth, then the entire edifice of Catholic theology comes crashing to the ground. Once broken down to its constitute parts, this false accusation amounts to nothing less than a charge of formal heresy against the Pope himself, and cannot be recognized as anything other than an attempt to precipitate some form of schism within the Church, renting apart the seamless garment of Christ.

Lest we forget: "The First See is judged by no one." (Canon 1404)

348 comments:

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Jason R. said...

p.s. I beg, pleadingly, for everyone to cling to the Church and the Holy Father as Our Lord's representative on Earth especially in the lead up to the centenary now with the threat of the megatsunami especially looming so very large and potentially imminent. This is especially no time for a rift to take place or anyone to leave the grace and protection of the Church through open disobedience to her teaching authority. Those of you who have, please, please reconsider your position... trust in Our Lord's promise to His bride, the Church... He is someone Whose promises can be counted on.

Jason R. said...

Thank you Bridget for posting the message from Our Lady of Zaro... whether the messages are genuine or not, I couldn't help but be stuck by the imagery of the white roses, as the Holy Father has taken a white rose many times (as I wrote about way, way above) as a sign the Little Flower was giving him guidance.

MightyRighty said...

I'm starting to think the epithet Petrus Romans is more of a curse than praise - focussing on Peters denial of Christ.
So it appears we are near the death an resurrection of the Church, as prophesied.

Emmett, while I am not convinced by the Filial Correction mob and strongly suspect their motives, I am not convinced by your case either.
I find myself in a state of deep confusion which, as far as I can ascertain, has been sown by Francis' refusal to speak on these matters.
Very senior figures such as Mullers being removed as CDF head and Parolin calling for 'dialogue within the church' are clear signals that something is very seriously wrong. The quotations on 1p5 from Spadaro are deeply, deeply troubling and as reported must be swiftly repudiated by Francis.
We may say that a Pope is not answerable to every crank, and that is true, but these are very senior people - as are many of the FC signatories.
This can no longer be ignored.

To bring this home (so to speak) if this is not addressed, and soon, I fear sympathy will be with the 'rebels' in the Provisional Catholic Church.

Never thought I'd be a Provo, but there you have it. ;)

Lukasz said...

I would like to recommend a little book (68 pages) about the polish nurse and Servant of God Rozalia Celak. She had visions of Jesus and of an upcoming disaster. Although she has not been declared a saint yet, reading about her life I believe she is a true saint.

Go to the web page below and there you will see a link to a pdf file. That is the book.

http://www.intronizacja.pl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=238:english&catid=35&Itemid=167

Here is a quote about Satan. Jesus said to Rozalia:

"Look, my child, Satan is similar to a dog kept on a chain. The dog barks, lunges at passing people, yet it cannot bite if they do not come closer. Similarly, Satan cannot do anything to any soul who does not approach him, i.e. who does not allow temptation and sin. Do not fear, I am at your side and with you, therefore, he cannot harm you or do anything wrong to you, though he hates you with all his might."

And here is her vision about the upcoming disaster:

"Suddenly, a terrible bang could be heard. The globe cracked. Enormous fire broke out and disgusting lava flew out like from a volcano, destroying completely all
countries which had not recognized Christ. I saw Germany and other Western European countries being destroyed.
I turned with terror to the person for help and I asked him: “Is this the end of the world, and the fire and lava, are these hell?” He replied: “This is not the end of the world or hell but a horrible war which shall complete the destruction.” The Polish borders survived intact, Poland persevered. The stranger said to me: “The countries under Christ’s reign and subjected to the power of His Sacred Heart shall become extremely powerful and there shall be one Fold and one Shepherd.” Upon these words everything disappeared.
After the Holy Communion, I asked Lord Jesus about the meaning of that vision. I was instructed: “Child, this is what shall happen if people do not return to God. The moment of Enthronement must not be delayed in Poland."

Poland recognized Christ as its king last year.
Note that Rozalia saw that "lava flew out like from a volcano" but the person in the vision explained it as "a horrible war which shall complete the destruction". Maybe we will have both a volcanic eruption and a war...

But read the book. It's not only about the visions. The part about her saintly life is very good.

Virtue said...

World Events:
Aug. 21 - U.S. Solar Eclipse
Aug. 21 - 4.2 magnitude earthquake at Ischia (site of unapproved Our Lady of Zaro messages)
Aug. 25 - Hurricane Harvey hits Corpus Christi, Texas
Sep. 2 - earthquake swarm in Soda Springs, Idaho (south of Yellowstone caldera)
Sep. 4 - North Korean hydrogen bomb test and ICBM tests flying over Japan
Sep. 6 - powerful geomagnetic storm with widespread Northern Lights; dozens of wildfires across U.S.
Sep. 8 - 8.1 magnitude earthquake off coast of Mexico; strange lights seen over Mexico City (city where Our Lady of Guadalupe Shrine is)
Sep. 8 - 5.2 magnitude earthquake hits Akita, Japan (site of Our Lady of Akita)
Sep. 10 - Hurricane Irma hits Florida
Sep. 19 - 7.1 magnitude earthquake in Mexico
Sep. 20 - Hurricane Maria hits Puerto Rico, particularly devastating San Juan after also hitting the Virgin Islands, Guadaloupe, and Dominica
Sep. 23 - Woman Clothed with the Sun sign; filial correction of Pope Francis made public
Sep. 27 - Popocatepetl volcano in Mexico erupts
Oct. 1 - Catalonia votes for independence from Spain
Oct. 1 - Ambae volcano in Vanuatu erupts (massive evacuations)
Vigil of Oct. 2 - Las Vegas shooting (deadliest US shooting ever)
Oct. 6 - 6.0 magnitude earthquake 125 miles from Akita, Japan
Oct. 7 - Meteor shower in constellation Draco
Oct. 7 - Start of 40+ earthquake swarm (all <2.8 magnitude) over 48 hour period in La Palma, Canary Islands
Vigil of Oct. 8 - Hurricane Nate hits New Orleans
Oct. 9 - "Fire devil" phenomenon 70km from Fatima, Portugal
Oct. 9 - Massive fires on Mt. Diablo and in Napa, Sonoma, and Mendocino counties in California provoke evacuations, destroying 1,500+ homes and businesses

Significant Religious Events:
Aug. 15 - Solemnity of the Assumption of Mary
Aug. 15 - Sep. 29 - St. Michael's Lent
Sep. 29/30 - Yom Kippur (Jewish Day of Atonement)
Oct. - month of the Rosary
Oct. 1 - Memorial of St. Therese
Oct. 2 - Feast of the Guardian Angels
Oct. 7 - Our Lady of the Rosary, First Saturday
Oct. 13 - 100th Anniversary of the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima

Bridget said...

"I love you kids" Lol. Lost in translation? ;)

Virtue said...

Already my list is outdated. The Canary Island line should now read:
"Oct. 7 - Start of 50+ earthquake swarm (strongest was 3.9 magnitude) over 72 hour period in the Canary Islands"

We are three days from the centenary of the Miracle of the Sun.

Mark W said...

Virtue - Keep a copy of this handy too, if you'd be so kind (from an earlier comment that might get lost with the 200th rollover comment)...

I want you lot to watch for something. You may see something that I miss, or it may be something very obvious.

Everyone keep an eye out for events that might be a sign associated with this –

“The Messages of the Three Angels

Then I saw another angel flying in midheaven, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people; and he said with a loud voice, ‘Fear God and give him glory, for the hour of his judgment has come; and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the fountains of water.’” (Revelation 14:6-7 RSV-CE)

This could be something that happens within the Church, or something that happens in the secular world. It could also be nothing at all. I don’t really have a feel for what it might be, but I won’t be at all surprised if it’s something internal to the Church.

The temporal focal point is roughly October 26th. So anything that happens between maybe the 20th and the 31st of October is fair game.

If this turns out to be something, then I’ll explain. If it turns out to be nothing, then it’s just that and everyone can move on.

Virtue said...

Will do, Mark! Assuming I am not destroyed by a tidal wave, I will remind you about this around the 20th. If I may ask, did you get the Oct. 20-31 range from some astronomical convergence?

Dumb Ox said...

Mike Miller, the World Olympians Association chief executive, claimed that radical anti-doping methods – including implants to recognise the effects of banned substances – are needed to protect clean sport.

“Some people say we shouldn’t do this to people,” Miller said. “Well, we’re a nation of dog lovers, we’re prepared to chip our dogs and it doesn’t seem to harm them, so why aren’t we prepared to chip ourselves?"

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/oct/10/call-for-athletes-to-be-fitted-with-microchips-fight-against-drug-cheats

Dumb Ox said...

Where's the most reliable place to track earthquakes and tremors in La Palma. Earthquaketracker reports no activity.

This seems more like it. This reports over 40 tremors in La Palma.

https://www.volcanodiscovery.com/earthquakes/canaries.html

Dumb Ox said...

Are there any geographical models to examine online if one of the Canary Island volcanos falls into the sea?

Jason R. said...

This video isn't super precise but gives a good idea of how many metres high the waves would be hitting different coastal areas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb4T8a1K5tw

I'd recommend taking a look at the YouTube user whose video this is other videos of similar nature, they are really pretty fascinating:

https://www.youtube.com/user/ingomar200/videos

Emmett O'Regan said...

I'm going to have to scan back through your comments in more detail later Mark W. I don't think we need to worry too much about La Palma, as it seems much too early for the tsunami according to the timescale I forward in the book. It could just be a wake up call. A warning shot...

Emmett O'Regan said...

The timing of it is almost surreal though...

Bridget said...

The message to Angela on October 8th was just posted on the Facebook page.

Message from our lady of zaro in 08.10.2017

This evening, mother showed up as mom's mother. His arms were open as a sign of hospitality and a long crown of the rosary, white of light in his right hand. Under her feet, mother had the world, on which there were scenes of war.
The world was semi-covered by mother's long mantle.
Mom was very sad, but she was hiding her pain with a nice smile.

Praise Jesus Christ

" dear children, thank you, thank you, thank you for coming to many in my blessed woods, on this day to me so dear.
Children Children, even tonight I'm here to invite you to pray.
Pray my children, pray. Your day is prayer, all your actions are prayer. Whenever you have to make an important decision, seek refuge in prayer. Children, God is prayer, it is through the prayer that you can meet God.
My children, many people take refuge in prayer only in times of pain and need, not so, God must always love him and pray to him.
My children, I am very sad for everything that will have to happen and I will be more mess because I see that many people turn away from the truth by following false doctrines.
My children, God is love and wants your salvation. My children, my heart is increasingly mangled by the cries of pain from the earth to my ears.
Children Beloved, pray for the church and for everything that of happens in it.
My children, I'm sad because times are short but not all are ready. Pray in your homes and make them smell like prayer. Be an example to those who are far from my son. Every hail Mary is a caress that you do, pray with my heart not with lips."
Then at some point, I saw a lot of images running through me like a movie.
First I saw the earth tremble, first the south and then all the central Italy... a great tidal wave that would drag entire nations... then I saw coming down from the sky like a huge boulder of fire and finally whole countries fighting wars.
Mom started crying and said, "Let's pray together".
After praying with mom, she passed through the pilgrims, touched many sick and blessed everyone.
In the name of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit. Amen."

Bridget said...

Like Emmett said, let's assume these are warnings for a time waaaay down the line. (Again, assuming the messages are genuine). Don't change your plans for Friday just yet! I'll just do what she says and pray!

Mark W said...

Virtue - Something like that. I got the idea from someone else. Revelation mentions 3 angels. There were three planets in Leo to help complete the twelve stars above Virgo's head on the 23rd of September. The idea is to see if there are any connections to be made between the movement of the planets and any messages that might be gleaned therefrom. However, πλανήτης in Greek (planets), can mean more than just "wanderer" in translation. It can also mean false teacher, or an individual without moral direction. Hence my hesitation to go into too much detail. The focal point is the 26th, so I figure anything between the 20th and 31st is likely in the right time frame.

And Emmett - I'm not saying that Cumbre Vieja is going to blow on the 26th. I'm saying that something big might happen within the Church on or around the 26th, but it has nothing to do with the earthquakes. In fact, it may be inside or outside the Church.

Dumb Ox, et al - the USGS sites only report 4.5 magnitude and greater outside the US. At least, that's the theory - their track record is somewhat less than stellar in that regard. In this particular region:

https://www.volcanodiscovery.com/earthquakes/canaries.html

And there's also:

http://www.ign.es/web/ign/portal/sis-area-sismicidad

IGN.es is a rather hard site to navigate, I find. It's a Spanish site with an English translation. But I find the layout to be harder to find things, and the translation is sometimes iffy.

Earthquake 3D is also fun, and you can download it for free. But it's USGS so it's US-centric too.

I counted 30 earthquakes at Cumbre Vieja itself. They're on both flanks of the southern side of the caldera. I didn't see anything over magnitude 2.5, and most are 1.0 to 1.8 in magnitude. All of the earthquakes are shallow-ish, in the 23-28 km depth range. It would seem, I think, to be lava or pressure moving beneath the mountain. The same thing happened with Mt. St. Helens before, well, you know...

Related - There have been five larger earthquakes along the mid-Atlantic ridge recently. They range from 4.8 to 6.8, and are moving northward from the Antarctic region to just south of the equator. This is a tectonic pressure transfer. The northern end of that ridge is Iceland, but Cumbre Vieja isn't too far off on the flank.

Mark W said...

Emmett - have you ever heard of πλανήτης being rendered as "messenger" in English? I haven't but I've run into a couple of people that insist it can be read that way. My Greek has suffered over the years, and it was never much to begin with.

I don't have access to my Gingrich Lexicon at the moment, but Strong's does NOT render it as "messenger" (but Strong's can be so wrong at times that I'm not sure it matters).

Mark W said...

Bridget - What happens if the earthquakes at Cumbre Vieja stop at 33?

Bridget said...

Ha. :) Don't ask me! Who's the 33 expert around here?? flyingnun?

Bridget said...

Hi Mark,

About those three angels- my guess is the first two have to do with the restoration of the Church, because the third angel is associated with the time of the Antichrist. Go back to page 196 in Emmett's book. A whole chapter on the message of the third angel. It makes sense that it's a pope making a proclamation indentifying the nature of the mark of the beast...and the penalties for accepting it.

Bridget said...

Hey everyone,

Can I float an idea around? Feel free to shoot it down. Ok- the Two Witnesses. The Angelic Pope and Great Monarch. It seems like Emeritus Pope Benedict and Pope Francis are the Two Witnesses. Benedict the Angelic Pope and Francis the Great Monarch. (I remember reading how the life of St. Francis of Assisi seemed to parallel the life of the Great Monarch). Jason, you talked about how Pope Francis is focusing on the social doctrine of the Church. (One will rule in spiritual affairs and the other in temporal affairs?). Francis and Benedict seem like two sides of the same coin. And aren't the Two Witnesses both clothed in sackcloth? (Dressed alike?). Those double lightning bolts after Benedict resigned seemed so loud and clear be like, "here they are! both of them!" Also, the Two Witnesses are rejected right? Both popes have had their fair share of attacks from opposing sides, right? Ok, I'm done. :)

I just have a hard time believing the role of the Great Monarch will be put into the hands of someone outside the Church, like a political leader.

Bridget said...

And it seems like this scenario could satisfy both sides of the situation. Those who are uncomfortable with the idea of Pope Francis being the Angelic Pope. And those who see Pope Francis as having a crucial role in the Restoration of the Church.

I could be way wrong! Just ideas.

Mark W said...

Bridget - I'm not saying that these three planets might actually be the three angels. In fact, I wouldn't even go so far as to say that they represent them in any way. These could simply be "signs in the sky" that are in some way related to the three angels. More like a mile marker along the road. One more part of an overall warning, and a sign of the times.

MightyRighty said...

An angel flying in mid-heaven is very specific.

I too think something will happen this month but - in political terms - its more likely to be a North Korean atmospheric test of a Hydrogen bomb.
That'd give you your bright light in mid-heaven and be a sign to the world.

I also suspect that Francis might die suddenly, then we'll hit some problems.

Today incidentally is the 50th anniversary of abortion being legalised in the UK....

KEP said...

So the ordinary magisterium is not infallible but is free from error. Lol. C'mon Emmett. You've been corrected on this, pointed to the head of the CDF, Cardinals, and The chruches foremost canon lawyers. You're wrong.

What's it called when a person rejects a dogma infallibly defined in an Ecumenical Council again?

KEP said...

Emmett, you said "I have never once said that the ordinary non-universal magisterium is infallible"

Yes, you did. You said the pope's ordinary magisterium is fallible but "incapable of teach in error in matters of faith aND morals."

But that's the very definition of Papal Infallibility/ex cathedra statements from Vatican I.

Vatican I states that ex cathedra statements are ONLY infallible in matters of faith and morals. ONLY matters of faith and morals.

So according to you, no matter what, the pope is always infallible in matters of faith and morals.

It's absurd and contradicts dogma from Vatican I. Nothing you can quote can override an infallible statement from a Council. Aside from that, as had been pointed out, the canon laws you point to only apply to a Pope proclaiming things already taught through the Churches universal magisterium. The Pope can't bind anyone to any new doctrines, he can only bind us to what was already taught in the deposit of faith. The only thing he can legally do is more accurately specify what was already taught in the deposit of faith. He has no authority to come up wits new contradictory teaches that contradict the previously held universal magisterium.

KEP said...

"even if they have not been defined with a solemn judgement or proposed as definitive by the ordinary and universal Magisterium"
Key phrase. The Pope can only clarify that which was already held in the universal magisterium. Nothing here says we're bound to teachings that weren't already in the universal magisterium.

theflyingnun said...

http://spiritdaily.org/blog/uncategorized/pope-benedict-no-longer-can-say-mass-alone

Jay29 said...

Conor Foran:

I'm with you. Even though I'm a "simpleton Catholic" (my definition of myself) compared to some, I do know that affirming people in their sins (adulterers) is the purest form of hatred to a person's eternal destiny. It's a horrible act. Giving Holy Communion makes it even worse....

It's not mercy, it's hatred.

I read Ann Barnhardt as well and agree with her.

chris said...

the view from outside
scroll down to video

https://z3news.com/w/tom-hornpetrus-romanus-succeed-pope-francis/

chris

Jay29 said...

Can someone answer these questions?

Can a pope teach anything new?

Can a council teach anything new?

chris said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHIpv703HWY

go to 26 min

interesting book

chris

chris said...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHIpv703HWY

protestant source but great info

scroll thru ads

and watch # 3 video as well

chris

Anthony said...

Latest update on La Palma seismic activity. Use Google Translate.

http://www.cuatro.com/noticias/sociedad/intrusion-magmatica-profundidad-enjambre-Palma_0_2449651319.html

Emmett O'Regan said...

KEP, you are what I would call a "papal minimalist" - one who feels that they can justly reject any Church teaching that hasn't been infallibly defined (i.e. almost the entirety of the Ordinary Magisterium throughout the ages). You obviously do not understand what the Church teaches on this subject or on the obligation of Obsequium religiosum (which applies to all Catholics). I would suggest you stop commenting on this particular subject without fully researching it. And again, stop with the aggressive tone or your comments will be deleted. You surely have the capacity to put forward an argument without resorting to anger, which doesn't look good for anyone. If you want to have proper dialogue here, then be polite and courteous.

Jason R. said...

KEP,

I can't help but feel you're being intentionally obtuse on these matters... again, I can't seem to get a straihgt answer on what I've quoted several times. Can. 749 obviously refers to ex cathedra statements, while Can. 752 refers quite precisely to the exact sitation now with the Holy Father.

You seem to be misunderstanding that a statement can have special protections that make it free from error without being infallible. The two things are not interchangable as you are seeming to suggest and/or understand. And I honestly don't understand how much clearer Can. 752 could possibly get, yet people that disagree with the Holy Father right now seem to want to pretend that Can. 752 doesnt even exist.

As for the argument that Can. 752 only applies when unveiling more of the Deposit of Faith, that is a non sequitur in the matter of who is to be the final arbiter of whether it does or it doesn't? The Holy Father of course! Otherwise ordinary Catholics could pick and choose whatever they wanted from the teachings of the Church cafeteria-style based on their own personal biases of whether the teachings are drawing from the Deposit of Faith or not, which would make for an obviously impossible situation (which leaves us, basically, with Protestantism).

And I have to agree with Emmett that your discourse of the topic seems a little overly personal, sometimes bordering on insulting to Emmett. We have gone around and around and around again on this topic, and no one is changing their mind at this point so maybe it's time to give it all a rest? Just a friendly suggestion.


Can. 749 §1. By virtue of his office, the Supreme Pontiff possesses infallibility in teaching when as the supreme pastor and teacher of all the Christian faithful, who strengthens his brothers and sisters in the faith, he proclaims by definitive act that a doctrine of faith or morals is to be held.

Can. 752 Although not an assent of faith, a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of bishops declares concerning faith or morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act; therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Jay, a pope can change non-irreformable portions of the Ordinary Magisterium, which is always subject to change, given to meet specific needs of different time periods. He cannot alter doctrine, Scripture, or previously defined dogmas. Yes, both councils and popes can find new understanding of Scripture, as Divine Revelation has not been made completely explicit.

Jason R. said...

Thanks for the clarification Emmett... with Can. 752's reference to "doctrine", does that mean it isn't really describing the situation we're faced with now?

Jason R. said...

Ah, nevermind, I did read your last sentence closely enough... Can. 752 doesn't say anything about altering doctine, Scripture, of defined dogma, but it doesn't preclude the chance of a new doctine being declared (that isn't declared ex cathedra) but makes it obvious that we would still need a religious submission of our intellect and will towards (is that correct?).

Jason R. said...

Argh, darn autocorrect, that should have read "I didn't read your last sentence closely enough...".

Thanks again for the clarification Emmett, as much acrimony as these posts about the Holy Father have sometimes contained, there have still been good fruits for me that have come out of it, including reading (both here and on external websites) on submission of the will and intellect to the magisterium and Petrine primacy, the difference between the ordinary and extraordinary magisterium, the three different levels of magisterial teaching, and so on and so on.

I feel very enriched in my faith in understanding these things, although like RC wrote about his recently passed father's views, I still have a tendency to fall back on "the gates of Hell shall not prevail!", but I am glad to have more of an intellectual understanding of the more nitty gritty of what the Church has to say on it in a more expounded form.

And I have found that I myself was being rude and way out of line in my tone, but when I apologized, the incredible and instantaneous kindness and generosity of spirit RC displayed formed a kind of bond between us that made me remember that what separates as is a drop in the ocean compared to the endless fathoms that unite us, and that on either side of the issue, a great love of our Church is very apparent as the underpinings of the disagreement in general. To any and all that I have been rude to (I know I was out-of-line with MightyRighty, particularly because I confused him with another poster who was quite terse with me about mentioning Russia as a country to watch, though that didn't give me the right to be rude anyways), I am deeply sorry for being a jerk; the interactions I had with RC really made me take a step back to check myself, and I sincerely apologize to all the folks I was less than charitable to (to say the least).

I hope we can all move on from this, but I am very much glad that it was still the subject of your blog entries Emmett, for I also see this very much in terms of Revelation 12:15-16, and too big of an issue in terms of the backdrop of prophecy being fulfilled to ignore.

p.s. I finally ordered the new edition of your book, it should be arriving any day now and am itching to dig into it with a vengence!

Anonymous said...

Pride begets error. Please pray the Rosary.
—Humble Maiden

Thomas said...

I think that what many are forgetting that God speaks to us through the Church. If the Church could teach heresy it is not from God, because God does not lie and the final cause of the Church is to save souls. In fact, if the pope could become a heretic (material or formal, heresy is heresy), a schismatic or an apostate, it means that the Church can defect from the faith, being built on the rock of St. Peter (whose never-failing faith seems to be the reason why the See of Rome can never lose the faith, though the rest of the Church can).

The Church is not a merely a human institution. It is God's voice in the world, which is why no authentic private revelation can contradict it or foster disobedience to its legitimate hierarchy. We cannot be bound to obey a Church that can teach us heresy.

Emmett O'Regan said...

It all boils down to this Jason - Catholics must give an assent of faith to Scripture and doctrines and dogmas which have been infallibly defined in the Extraordinary Magisterium - i.e. we must believe this firmly with all our hearts.
This assent of faith is quite different from the religious assent (Obsequium religiosum -submission of the will and intellect) we are obliged to give to the Ordinary Magisterium, which contains the vast majority of the Church's everyday teachings, and is provided with the Divine assistance of the Holy Spirit. This explains the different applications of the various canons you cited above. Although the Ordinary Magisterium is fallible, and it may be slightly deficient in very rare instances, Catholics must still accept these teachings as binding, and they cannot lead us into immorality or heresy (as Thomas quite eloquently puts it above).

KEP said...

The catechism clearly states that the death penalty is admissible by civil authorities for various reasons. One is allowed to be a Catholic and believe in the death penalty.

Now Pope Francis just came out in a confrence with Bishops, Cardinals, etc and said that the death penalty is "contrary to the gospel" (that's an issue of the faith), is always wrong and not allowed to be believed. There is also discussion of a change to the catechism to reflect this. Keep in mind that 1) pope francis is equating the death penalty as an issue of the faith and 2) he has publicly said that his sermons are part of his magisterium, and this wasn't JUST a sermon, but was given to the Cardinals and Bishops.

So which is it? Is Pope Francis free from error when discussing the death penalty being completely against the faith? Or was Pope St. John Paul II free from error when he allowed the death penalty in his encyclical Evangelium Vitae, paragraph 56?

KEP said...

"statement can have special protections that make it free from error without being infallible"

This is akin to believing in square circles or married bachelors. "Infallible" literally means "free from error." As in, the latin word literally means "free from error." Saying a statement is "free from error" but "fallible" is complete nonsense

Your retort is to say "no no no, he's not infallible, but he's still free from error in matters of faith and morals!"

But you're not getting that that's the VERY DEFINITION of an ex cathedra statement. Ex cathedra statements are ONLY FREE FROM ERROR IN MATTERS OF FAITH AND MORALS. You're turning every encyclical into an ex cathedra statement.

Let me restate that: Vatican I said that ex cathedra statements and extraordinary magisterial teachings are *ONLY* free from error on *matters of faith and morals*. EX CATHEDRA STATEMENTS ARE ONLY INFALLIBLE ON MATTERS OF FAITH AND MORALS. THE POPE IS NEVER FREE FROM ERROR ON MATTERS *OTHER* THAN FAITH AND MORALS, EVEN WHEN SPEAKING EX CATHEDRA. Clear enough?

You seem to think that the Pope is ALWAYS free from error on matters of faith and morals, but his ex cathedra statements are simply free of all error. This is wrong. The pope is never free from error on matters OTHER than faith and morals, and he isn't guaranteed to be free from error on faith and morals unless he's exercising his extraordinary magisterium. Outside of that we can get binding dogmas through the extraordinary magisterium of the Church (a council). Other than that the Pope and Bishops united to him can restate what the Church has always taught since the beginning. This is the "ordinary magisterium." No pope has authority to introduce new teachings into the ordinary magisterium, he is only allowed to uphold what was already taught.

KEP said...

Jason R., check this out from Catholic.com, which had an imprimatur. Scroll down to the section of canon 752:

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/how-to-weigh-church-teachings

"According to Cardinal Ratzinger, “To this paragraph belong all those teachings—on faith and morals—presented as true or at least as sure, even if they have not been defined with a solemn judgment or proposed as definitive by the ordinary and universal magisterium” (Doctrinal Commentary 10).

These teachings are “an authentic expression of the ordinary magisterium of the Roman pontiff or of the college of bishops and therefore require religious submission of will and intellect. They are set forth in order to arrive at a deeper understanding of revelation, or to recall the conformity of a teaching with the truths of faith, or lastly to warn against ideas incompatible with these truths or against dangerous opinions that can lead to error.

“A PROPOSITION CONTRARY TO THESE DOCTRINES CAN BE QUALIFIED AS ERRONEOUS OR, in the case of teachings of the prudential order, as rash or dangerous and therefore tuto doceri non potest [Latin, "NOT ABLE TO BE SAFELY TAUGHT"].

The Doctrinal Commentary *DOES NOT GIVE EXAMPLES OF NON-INFALLIBLE TEACHINGS, PRESUMABLY BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY. MOST STATEMENTS IN *MAGISTERIAL DOCUMENTS* FALL INTO THIS CATEGORY."

Pope Benedict says magisterial documents can have errors that are not able to be safely taught. But Emmett says no, the pope is always free from error.

I'll stick with Vatican I and Pope Benedict here.

KEP said...

By the way, Popen Francis stated today that the catechism WILL be updated to uphold this new "death penalty is always wrong and contrary to the gospel." He equated with the faith and said it contradicts the commandments.

Pope St John Paul II taught in Evangelium Vitae paragraph 56 that the use of the death penalty can be legitimate. Popes in previous generations gave the inquisition authority to allow civil authorities to enact the death penalty.

So who is right here? The Magisterium of Pope St. John Paul II or the Magisterium of Pope Francis?

If the pope can't teach error on faith and morals, and the pope is equating the death penalty with both faith and morals, and JP2 and Francis contradict each other, then we have a problem.

Anonymous said...

Conor,

Would you have a link to this Barnhardt piece on Benedict?

It was my understanding that Benedict acknowledged that he validly resigned and that Francis is pope.

sam

Anonymous said...

KEP,
You are correct. There is a problem. Confusion reigns. God help us!

Thomas said...

I often post these articles from the Catholic Encyclopedia, which was written BEFORE Vatican II it’s futile to say “read this section” or “read that section”. Rather, read the entire thing if the question of papal heresy and the licitness of resisting Church authority when you think they are mistaken.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm


http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08631b.htm

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15006b.htm


It is my understanding that no true pope can lose faith since Vatican I. Before there was a theory of what could happen if a pope could fall into heresy, but even St. Bellarmine believed it could never happen. That means, since Vatican I, that anyone who can lose the faith was never the pope. But you have to be certain that he is truly a heretic, not merely judging by appearances. Also there must be a true pope somewhere. If Benedict does submit to Francis then Francis is the pope. Unless you can prove his election to be doubtful, you must doubt your own judgement of his words and teachings. Also, while considering the distinction between dogma and discipline, remember that in the Council of Jerusalem the Church dispensed with the mosaic law for gentiles. Ask yourself if they had the authority to do so, and what binding and loosing may mean.

Thomas said...

And let me say that this is my best understanding. I could be wrong here. I went through the whole traditionalist circus and came out a sedevacantist before I discovered where my error lied. The purpose of the Church is to save souls and be easily everyone. It cannot disappear or teach error because that would contradict the dogma of indefectability. The error lay in the fact that I was judging the Church’s teachings for error rather than humbly submitting and letting it correct my misunderstandings. But it cannot be the pillar of truth the same time my private judgement is.

If Pope Francis is the true pope in your opinion why not submit humbly to his teachings rather than judging them? And if he is not the pope, who is? Benedict pledged obedience to him. Unless you can disprove his election and point out the true pope, he is your teacher, not you his.

Virtue said...

Well, we are hours away from the centenary. Here's a last update:

World Events:
Aug. 21 - U.S. Solar Eclipse
Aug. 21 - 4.2 magnitude earthquake at Ischia (site of unapproved Our Lady of Zaro messages)
Aug. 25 - Hurricane Harvey hits Corpus Christi, Texas
Sep. 2 - earthquake swarm in Soda Springs, Idaho (south of Yellowstone caldera)
Sep. 4 - North Korean hydrogen bomb test and ICBM tests flying over Japan
Sep. 6 - powerful geomagnetic storm with widespread Northern Lights; dozens of wildfires across U.S.
Sep. 8 - 8.1 magnitude earthquake off coast of Mexico; strange lights seen over Mexico City (city where Our Lady of Guadalupe Shrine is)
Sep. 8 - 5.2 magnitude earthquake hits Akita, Japan (site of Our Lady of Akita)
Sep. 10 - Hurricane Irma hits Florida
Sep. 19 - 7.1 magnitude earthquake in Mexico
Sep. 20 - Hurricane Maria hits Puerto Rico, particularly devastating San Juan after also hitting the Virgin Islands, Guadaloupe, and Dominica
Sep. 23 - Woman Clothed with the Sun sign; filial correction of Pope Francis made public
Sep. 27 - Popocatepetl volcano in Mexico erupts
Oct. 1 - Catalonia votes for independence from Spain
Oct. 1 - Ambae volcano in Vanuatu erupts (massive evacuations)
Vigil of Oct. 2 - Las Vegas shooting (deadliest US shooting ever)
Oct. 6 - 6.0 magnitude earthquake 125 miles from Akita, Japan
Oct. 7 - Meteor shower in constellation Draco
Oct. 7 - Start of 50+ earthquake swarm (strongest was 3.9 magnitude) over 72 hour period in the Canary Islands
Vigil of Oct. 8 - Hurricane Nate hits New Orleans
Oct. 9 - "Fire devil" phenomenon 70km from Fatima, Portugal
Oct. 9 - Massive fires on Mt. Diablo and in Napa, Sonoma, and Mendocino counties in California provoke evacuations, destroying 1,500+ homes and businesses
Oct. 10 - 6.3 magnitude earthquake near Chile/Peru/Bolivia border

Significant Religious Events:
Aug. 15 - Solemnity of the Assumption of Mary
Aug. 15 - Sep. 29 - St. Michael's Lent
Sep. 29/30 - Yom Kippur (Jewish Day of Atonement)
Oct. - month of the Rosary
Oct. 1 - Memorial of St. Therese
Oct. 2 - Feast of the Guardian Angels
Oct. 7 - Our Lady of the Rosary, First Saturday
Oct. 13 - 100th Anniversary of the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima

Uriel said...

Anonymous,

Here you go.

https://www.barnhardt.biz/2017/01/16/cutting-the-crap-31-questions-and-blunt-answers-about-the-catholic-church-and-antipope-bergoglio/

There are other good links and analyses at NonVeniPacem.

Thanks and thank you for the support!

CF

Mark W said...

Virtue - Just noticed the USGS site has a 2.9 magnitude earthquake in North Korea. It's not a seismically active area, and it's VERY shallow for an earthquake, so odds are pretty good it's another nuke test. USGS usually classifies them as "Explosion", but they haven't done it yet.

Mark W said...

The location is listed as Sungjibaegam, North Korea

Anonymous said...

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/congress-warned-north-korean-emp-attack-would-kill-90-of-all-americans/article/2637349

Look to the article timeline. Six months ago was the 100th anniversary of the first Marian apparition.

Also, tomorrow President Trump announces his decision/policy on Iran.

Anonymous said...

Ah not quite. My bad. It was five months ago. But still...

Jason R. said...

Emmett, that was kind of along the lines of my understanding of things, but thanks for summing it up in such a succinct yet precise way!

MightyRighty said...

@Thomas - The issue, as I understand it, is not 'am I right' or 'is the Pope right'.
Thats not the concern being raised.

The main concern is between 'is the current Pope right' (on divorce etc) or are the word of Jesus and the 10 commandments right? Which has priority?

The issue is tricky because what many have failed to address amid the legalese and obfuscation is what happens if/when a Pope seems to contradict a teaching handed down by Christ?
No amount of quoting arcane judgements and laws and hierarchies can get past this issue.
Further, I find it difficult to understand the position that Francis can demand unswerving loyalty to a policy or approach that he has allowed to be implemented and interpreted differently in different jurisdictions.
The Church is either Universal or it is not.
(To me, personally, this action reveals a manifest disdain for the Church)

It is increasingly my view that he [i]refuses[/i] to answer this question because to state his beliefs openly would put him in conflict with unassailable Church teaching.

Again, EO'R and others have tried to deflect the thrust of the correction towards whether or not we are obliged to be loyal to the Papacy or whether or not the Papacy can be in error. This is not the issue.
The FC crowd want clarification on another issue entirely: where does authority lie, with the teachings of Jesus or with Francis?

(It might be that I personally agree with those beliefs but if they are in conflict with Gods teaching - Adultery commandment - and/or Jesus teaching on divorce, then surely it cannot be Catholic?)

Anonymous said...

If you lived close to where the disasters are, you wouldn't be eagerly compiling a list of disasters. It seems to be very insensitive almost as bad as when the local news televises someone's home burning to the ground as it is happening.

Jason R. said...

We're not compiling disasters for the sake of morbidity or cyber-gawking, it's a list of things that could be tied directly to Catholic prophecy. And even from a temporal point of view, in my mind this in no way is being insentive any more than writing a book about tragic events, such as a book on some aspect of the Second World War. I think you may be being contrary just for it's own sake, or else you have a very highly-attuned empathy, but either way, there's nothing bad or evil about compiling a list of events, especially in a forum like this that is trying to figure out how these events may fit into a prophetic time-line in our current era.

theflyingnun said...

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/congress-warned-north-korean-emp-attack-would-kill-90-of-all-americans/article/2637349

Jason R. said...

@theflyingnun

This is an extremely sobering reality, and I can attest because of my work-background in telecommunications, banking, and insurance, as well as my areas of study in university (economics, computer science, physics, administration, and finance) that the science behind an EMP detonation over approx. Denver would fry every piece of circuitry or capacitors over most of North America.

Our food-supply chain is so very precarious because of near universal adoption of the just-in-time inventory system pioneered by Toyota, and really, is used everywhere now, how every aspect of our lives, like heating, cooling, transportation, food supply, electricity, communications, commerce, is dependent on electronics, with an almost complete absence of redundant analog systems whatsoever as back up anymore... within 2 weeks we would be seeing food riots in the major cities and people swarming out any way they could to the areas where food is produced, an internal refugee crisis that would be almost unimaginable would occur... I don't even like to think about how horrifying this would be.

It makes me someone relieved that I live in the centre of one of the biggest producers of wheat in the world, but that would shelter me from the effects of something like this for long.

This is obviously a geopolitically intolerable state for the US to find itself in, and because any conventional attack, no matter how huge, could not ensure that North Korea wouldn't nuke at least Seoul, Tokyo, and Okinawa, the only real option, as horrible as it is, is for the US to use a massive amount of nuclear weapons on North Korea to completely wipe them out, as in, not a single North Korean would be left alive, with the collateral damage to surrounding countries almost unimaginable as well.

I think Trump is intentionally goading North Korea into doing something like take a pot-shot at the B1 Lancer/B2 Spirit flights they are now doing along the coast of North Korea (but over International waters) just so China would stay out of a war because the DPRK would have initiated hostilities. But I know if the North Koreans don't take the bait, the US will engage in a massive first strike, it's a given in this situation... no US President, or especially the Intelligence Community, would ever tolerate this kind of clear and present danger for the rest of time. So the US would definitely risk war with China by striking first... it's that much of an imperative.

Jason R. said...

... cont.

The only, only way I see out of this situation of the US launching a massive and totally devastating nuclear attack against North Korea is if China makes a big move first; China's economy is completely dependent on it's exports to the US... if these rapidly ceased, China would very likely slip into total chaos, and probably civil war between the internal and coastal areas as has happened so many times in it's history before. And China is fully aware of how completely intolerable any viable nuclear threat is to the United States. So China, as crazy as it sounds, might invade North Korea herself, or maybe achieve the same aims by threatening the North with invasion by the PLA unless the DPRK submits to the same intense monitoring that Iran is now under, and fully gives up it's nukes now and forever.

China would much rather risk war with North Korea, her unreliable ally, than with the United States... the power of the PLA isn't great enough vis-a-vis conventional forces yet to even hope to achieve victory over the US, and China has almost a minuscule amount of nuclear weapons herself compared to either Russia or the US, and American anti-ballistic missile systems are a real wildcard as to their actually effectiveness... no one is quite sure. So knowing the American position, China will do anything to avoid war with America, and invading North Korea herself, enforcing a regime change that swears off nuclear weapons forever, would even in China's eyes practically be the only alternative to a full-out nuclear holocaust in North Korea.

I hope China steps up to this very difficult challenge, because the hour hand is getting extremely close to midnight right now, and the US can't afford to wait much longer, if at all.

Thomas said...


The main concern is between 'is the current Pope right' (on divorce etc) or are the word of Jesus and the 10 commandments right? Which has priority?

------------------------

The real question is if Catholicism is compatible with the idea that the pope can oppose the teachings of Jesus. My own research says no. Jesus speaks to us through the Church, whose pope's faith cannot fail. If that were ever to happen Catholicism would be a false religion, making up doctrines and dogmas in ecumenical councils, using empty rhetoric like saying that the successors of St Peter have the gift of never-failing faith. Either Pope Francis is a false pope or what he's teaching is not incompatible with God's will.

Now the first pope dispensed with the mosaic law (perhaps given by God the Father) for gentiles. Even Jesus kept the law and stated that He didn't come to abolish it. Were the Judaizer's right, or does the Pope have the authority to loose this discipline in God's name? There's a dogma concerning marriage, yet it is a discipline as to how the Church should give communion. Not every mortal sin is an actual mortal sin; and Catholicism states that a pope has complete authority over discipline, who wants to allow priests to discern consciences to see when there is truly a mortal sin. If God is displeased with the pope He will punish him Himself. It's all topsy-turvy to state that the Church would loose something on earth that is still bound in heaven.

Sedevacantists judge teachings ofecumenical councils, popes and the hierarchy to all be heretics and heresies because they've made their own judgements the pillar of truth. If they can't understand how some statement is compatible with their understanding of Catholicism they will judge it to be a heresy or error, rather than reconciling their understanding with what the Church is teaching. I think that papal critics are making the same error, but only they believe the Church of Rome is still Catholic.

It's a bit like the tail wagging the dog.

Jason R. said...

Thomas, that's exactly how I've felt through all of this, reading your words it felt you were speaking my heart and mind and soul for me. Thank you for writing this.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Mark W - I'm not completely sure about the link between the Greek word planetes (wanderer) doubling up to mean "messenger". But the epistle of Jude certainly equates the wandering stars (the seven classical planets) with fallen angels (Jude 1:13). So there might be an etymological connection somewhere along the line.

Emmett O'Regan said...

KEP, I just wanted to point out that you used the above quote from Cardinal Ratzinger to arrive at the following conclusion: "Pope Benedict says magisterial documents can have errors that are not able to be safely taught". This has to be one of the most singular subjective interpretations I have ever come across, and totally back-to-front. So what you are basically saying here is that Cardinal Ratzinger stated that the Ordinary Magisterium cannot be safely taught, because it is not infallible? Seriously???!

You have actually confuted your own position here, rather than bolstering it. If you go back and read that text properly, you will find that Cardinal Ratzinger actually said that even though the Ordinary Magisterium is non-infallible: "These teachings are “an authentic expression of the ordinary magisterium of the Roman pontiff or of the college of bishops and therefore require religious submission of will and intellect." He then goes on to say that anyone who adopts a position which *is contrary to* the teachings of the Ordinary Magisterium is erroneous or rash and dangerous - not that the Ordinary Magisterium is erroneous! Why would he ask anyone to give submission of their will and intellect to something that cannot be safely taught?!

“A proposition contrary to these doctrines can be qualified as erroneous or, in the case of teachings of the prudential order, as rash or dangerous and therefore tuto doceri non potest [Latin, “not able to be safely taught”].”

It just goes to show the lengths you stretching yourself to in order to give justification for your refusal to give religious assent to the Ordinary Magisterium, which is an obligation which all Catholics must adhere to, as taught by the Catechism:

"The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. . . . The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium," above all in an Ecumenical Council. When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed," and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith." This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.
Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a "definitive manner," they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals. To this ordinary teaching the faithful "are to adhere to it with religious assent" which, though distinct from the assent of faith, is nonetheless an extension of it. (CCC 891-892)

We cannot only accept the infallible pronouncements of the Church, as you are claiming - the Catechism demands submission of the will and intellect to the Ordinary Magisterium as well. You really need to talk to a good pastor about the position you are taking KEP.


Emmett O'Regan said...

I'd pay heed to Thomas above KEP and MightyRighty. He is obviously speaking from the wisdom of experience in this matter, and has safely came through to the other side. The Catechism teaches that the office of the successor of St. Peter is perpetual in character. This charism of perpetuity and indefectibility means that it will never be broken or interrupted by a false pope, as the Church is granted the protection of the Holy Spirit.

"The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful." "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered." (CCC 882)

I trust in Our Lord's promise that evil will never prevail against the Church, and also in the protection of the Holy Spirit.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Thomas said: "It is my understanding that no true pope can lose faith since Vatican I. Before there was a theory of what could happen if a pope could fall into heresy, but even St. Bellarmine believed it could never happen."

This is exactly why there is no set procedure in Canon law for removing an heretical pope. The idea of an heretical pope is completely contrary to post-Counter Reformation Catholic theology, and finds its roots among the false prophecies of heretics and schismatics.

Emmett O'Regan said...

MightyRighty, I don't want to drag this topic down a whole different route on the AL topic, as I think it has went far enough. I'll briefly mention that Cardinal Muller has rightly stated that no doctrine set down by Christ has been changed by Pope Francis, nor can it ever. The only thing that has changed is the application of pastoral discipline towards *some* (not all) of the divorced and remarried (whose first marriage may not be canonically valid). The application of pastoral discipline (which is limited here to certain very specific cases) is a completely different matter from issues pertaining to doctrine. I think Pope Francis has already responded as far as he's going to concerning the authors of the Correctio - he simply told them to go back and reread AL from start to finish. If you take the time to do the same (and have enough of an academic background to understand the various complexities involving moral philosophy, subjective consciousness and so forth), you will find it can be completely squared with previous papal documents, rather than espousing an hermeneutic of rupture.

Bridget said...

Daily readings for today October 13th 2017

Reassurance that the time of Satan's greater power will soon come to an end?

Reading 1 JL 1:13-15; 2:1-2

Gird yourselves and weep, O priests!
wail, O ministers of the altar!
Come, spend the night in sackcloth,
O ministers of my God!
The house of your God is deprived
of offering and libation.
Proclaim a fast,
call an assembly;
Gather the elders,
all who dwell in the land,
Into the house of the LORD, your God,
and cry to the LORD!

Alas, the day!
for near is the day of the LORD,
and it comes as ruin from the Almighty.

Blow the trumpet in Zion,
sound the alarm on my holy mountain!
Let all who dwell in the land tremble,
for the day of the LORD is coming;
Yes, it is near, a day of darkness and of gloom,
a day of clouds and somberness!
Like dawn spreading over the mountains,
a people numerous and mighty!
Their like has not been from of old,
nor will it be after them,
even to the years of distant generations.

Responsorial Psalm PS 9:2-3, 6 AND 16, 8-9

R. (9) The Lord will judge the world with justice.

I will give thanks to you, O LORD, with all my heart;
I will declare all your wondrous deeds.
I will be glad and exult in you;
I will sing praise to your name, Most High.
R. The Lord will judge the world with justice.
You rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked;
their name you blotted out forever and ever.
The nations are sunk in the pit they have made;
in the snare they set, their foot is caught.
R. The Lord will judge the world with justice.
But the LORD sits enthroned forever;
he has set up his throne for judgment.
He judges the world with justice;
he governs the peoples with equity.
R. The Lord will judge the world with justice.
Alleluia JN 12:31B-32

R. Alleluia, alleluia.
The prince of this world will now be cast out,
and when I am lifted up from the earth
I will draw all to myself, says the Lord.
R. Alleluia, alleluia.

GospelLK 11:15-26

When Jesus had driven out a demon, some of the crowd said:
"By the power of Beelzebul, the prince of demons,
he drives out demons."
Others, to test him, asked him for a sign from heaven.
But he knew their thoughts and said to them,
"Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste
and house will fall against house.
And if Satan is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand?
For you say that it is by Beelzebul that I drive out demons.
If I, then, drive out demons by Beelzebul,
by whom do your own people drive them out?
Therefore they will be your judges.
But if it is by the finger of God that I drive out demons,
then the Kingdom of God has come upon you.
When a strong man fully armed guards his palace,
his possessions are safe.
But when one stronger than he attacks and overcomes him,
he takes away the armor on which he relied
and distributes the spoils.
Whoever is not with me is against me,
and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

"When an unclean spirit goes out of someone,
it roams through arid regions searching for rest
but, finding none, it says,
'I shall return to my home from which I came.'
But upon returning, it finds it swept clean and put in order.
Then it goes and brings back seven other spirits
more wicked than itself who move in and dwell there,
and the last condition of that man is worse than the first."

Jason R. said...

@Bridget, wow!! Often the daily readings feel especially reflective of our most present of circumstances in the world, but these really were something else if the little time of Satan's increased power is now at it's end. After the first reading I was, well, that was pretty interesting, but reading the psalm gave me shivers.... until I read the Gospel Acclamation, then I really got shivers!!! And the particular parable from the Gospel reading,

When a strong man fully armed guards his palace, his possessions are safe. 22 But when one stronger than he attacks and overcomes him, he takes away the armor on which he relied and distributes the spoils. 23 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

This seemed so apt as to why we need to cling to the basic premises our religion is absolutely based on. I'm not at all suggesting people claiming the Holy Father is an anti-pope, the False Prophet, a heretic, or any other of those slurs against him are under the influence of demons or anything like that, but verse 23 really felt definitive in the way Our Lord phrased it. You can't be against Jesus' hand-picked representative for Himself here on Earth and still rationally claim to be with Him.

Even if I'm reading the significant of the Gospel wrong, the Psalm and the Gospel Acclimation both really seemed very tied to the chance that the time of that Leo XIII heard in his vision is over. But the question still remains of the lack of repentance and hos apostasy generally among many of the faithful in Europe seems to get worse every generation. Perhaps today is a fresh start when people will begin, maybe only slowly but surely, to turn back to the faith without the need for a chastisement, but that seems like a stretch, especially in light of subsequent Marian apparitions like the one at Akita. But at least the deck may not be so stacked against so many in the world if the false ideologies that run so counter to the Church and its teachings don't have a supernaturally influenced power of persuasion?

I so wanted to go to Mass this morning but my body just wouldn't cooperate, so especially thank you for posting the readings Bridget. I'm going to try to spend most of the day praying the rosary since I missed Mass, for today feels like a day for some sort of special observance on my part.

Anonymous said...

Emmett:

This is Joe from Los Angeles!! Have you thought of creating a twitter account??

I enjoy your postings.

Virtue said...

Fortunately, it does not seem that there were any new natural disasters today. I'm sure that something of spiritual or even temporal significance was set in motion this day, but we may not understand it for some time. The only noteworthy thing I have read so far is that Pres. Trump decertified the Iran nuclear deal. Congress now has 60 days to decide if they will reinstate sanctions on Iran. That brings us to Dec. 12, which is the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe. I don't know if any of that means anything in prophecy.

Mark W said...

Well, it certainly felt more like a Friday the 13th than a big anniversary.

Anonymous said...

It was a pretty big deal today in my tow; all 6 Catholic schools here had a special Mass in the two parishes, though while not explicitly in hour of the centenary, they were held to pray for world peace, so I'm fairly confident the message of Our Lady of Fatima was on our priests' minds when they them up.

Though I didn't personally feel any noticeable spiritual shift in the world, like Virtue wrote, maybe we've turned a corner that won't be readily discernible except in hind-sight in the months (or maybe even years) to come.

CristiFK said...

I’m really disappointed that Emmett didn’t give us a new entry topic today. I have followed his blog and book carefully. I felt like I was left hanging today.

Elasmo said...

I kinda feel like we were all left hanging today...not from Emmett...but by Heaven. Dunno what I was expecting...but something? anything?

Dumb Ox said...

My wife, children, and I have developed a devotion to Our Lady of Fatima this year; we've been praying the rosary daily and named our newborn this year after St Jacinta. We faced a year full of major trials, and God answered each one of them, and we have no doubt that the intercession of our lady was behind it. We've witnessed the unexpected conversion of a loved one, a loved one close to death pull through, someone get out of an abusive relationship (as in someone asked for our prayers to get out of the situation and then the other person died unexpectedly), etc. Today in particular we experienced God's answer to an intention of ours that we've been praying for all year. Don't want to get into further details.

The lesson we learned is to persevere in prayer and to trust in God's providence.

Emmett, I wanted you to know that your book and blog and many comments posted here have helped inspire this devotion to Mary. Thank you.

I wanted to share this because I know many were expecting something amazing to happen today (I'm sure something did that we don't know about). I get the sense that we're all in the watch tower looking for the unfolding of signs of the Lords return, but we must also live the message of Fatima: pray the rosary and if possible receive the sacraments daily, pray for the conversion of sinners, offer acts of penance for the remission of the sins of the world, and pray for the Pope. We are all seeing the signs of the times and prayer is our principal duty.

Remnant Clergy said...

So much education but how little you really know. You cannot recognize heresy when it’s in your face. So according to you adulterers are ok to receive Holy Communion? It’s ok to “discern” that remaining in an intrinsically evil sin of adultery is fine? What prevents you from seeing rotten fruit, which can only come from a rotten tree, not a good one?

Jason R. said...

I kind of felt something quite different, nothing earth-shattering, but it was a new experience for me.

When I prayed the rosary in the early evening, I couldn't remember the Apostles Creed! That was completely bizarre because I watch Mass on TV almost daily if I can't attend (which I usually can't like I used to). I was wondering if I was having a stroke or something. The harder I tried to remember how it began, the more distant it seemed. I was getting worried and a bit agitated because I thought something seriously must be wrong with me physically, but I just let go of trying, not just to remember, I just let go of everything, all the big and little things in my life that I try so futilely to control.

And I didn't need to find the words, they found me. That's the best I can explain it. I didn't have anything like an out of body experience or anything occultish like that, but I felt like I stepped outside of myself, outside of "me". It felt like my mind and my body had no connection to each other at all, and even though I was in my usual great pain, I could still feel it, because it was just my body it didn't hurt my mind. That sounds probably like crazy ranting, but it's my best interpretation again.

I prayed the rosary so effortlessly, I saw so clearly all of the Sorrowful Mysteries so vivid in my mind, I'd forgotten what that was like because I have experienced it since I was a really little kid praying the rosary every night after reading one chapter of the bible with my mom and brother and sister. And in seeing the events happen so clearly in my mind's eye, my mind still feeling disconnected somehow so completely from my body, I realized what I had achieved that was causing all of this strange but spiritually enriching experience to happen; I'd found total freedom from distraction. That's why it was like when I was a small child, when I had no cares and didn't think about life more than about 4 hours in advance at the best of times.

When I finished, I felt a real rush as my mind and my body were connected again, though my pain became as usual tough to bear, my heart felt like it was soaring, like a balloon rising up and up and up and never stopping, I felt like that for quite awhile, just completely blissed out, and then fell asleep (something I usually can *never* do without quite a bit of different medication, and though I can't remember them too clearly, I had the happiest dreams with all of my cousins and uncles and aunts and my mom and dad alive again, grandparents, too, and we weren't doing anything too special I don't think, but the love I could feel between myself and each of those people was just the best feeling imaginable, I could understand it at a way deeper level or something. And when I woke up I felt amazingly well-rested for only sleeping a few hours (which is why I'm typing at 3:15 AM instead of sleeping).

I wish I could say I was changed in a permanent way by this experience, and I've prayed the rosary again, and it didn't happen like earlier. But, again, I'm not too sure what to make of the whole experience, but it was completely new and nothing like anything I've experienced before praying the rosary, or the chaplet of Divine Mercy either... I'm kind of longing already to feel like that again, but am also content just with the memory of it making me feel just very warm and safe and sound.

Emmett O'Regan said...

CristiFK, I did intend to write something to mark the centenary, but was bogged down with work unfortunately. I also wanted to devote some of my time here to address some concerns about Pope Francis in the com-box, as it seems that many readers of this blog are on the cusp of outright schism - which of course has severe spiritual ramifications. Personally, I didn't think we would see any chastisement during the centenary, but rather a temporary reprieve from chastisement, like the Ninevites were given. This is in line with the vision of the Third Secret, when the flames of the angel's flaming sword dies out when they come into contact with the rays of grace emanating from the hands of Our Lady. On the Miraculous Medal, that particular scene described in the Third Secret is depicted alongside Our Lady trampling the head of the Serpent. So its really about another victory being achieved over Satan, which is invisible to us, because it occurs in the spiritual realm. As Bridget pointed out above, the end of the Short Time of Satan is really about the binding of the "strong man" once again. This is purely in order to allow for the spread of the Gospel (as St. Augustine quite rightly pointed out), which has been greatly inhibited during this age of apostasy. It's not going to happen in an instant, but rather in line with what occurred during the original binding of Satan during Our Lord's sacrificial death on the Cross. God's Kingdom is only built up gradually over time, through the efforts of the labourers in the vineyard (i.e. all Catholics working together). In fact, I don't even think that the Short Time given to Satan will end altogether until around the year 2020, when we will see yet another rare alignment of all seven classical planets - which symbolises the opening and closing of the Abyss through the "keys to Death and Hades" in Rev 1:18, which are also described as seven stars (the seven wandering planets visible to the naked eye).
Alignments of the seven classical planets have marked key moments in the Short Time given to Satan. This was kicked off by the alignment of the seven classical planets in December 1899, just after Pope Leo XIII consecrated the world to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. The next such event was in February 1962 at the "mid-point" of the Short Time of Satan, which saw Satan's tactics change from killing Job's children (symbolising the destruction of warfare) to inflicting a terrible plague upon his own body (symbolising the apostasy from the Church and the sexual abuse crisis). In retrospect, we can see that was intimately connected to the Sexual Revolution and also the "death of God" movement - a philosophical concept which was established in reaction to the world wars in the first half of the 20th century (when the love of many grows cold because of the increase of lawlessness). This year also seen the Cuban Missile Crisis, which is also related to the "rescue" of the world from nuclear war seen in the Third Secret, corresponding with the threefold cry of penance from the Archangel Michael.
The next alignment of all seven classical planets occurred on 5th May, 2000, just before Pope St. John Paul II announced the publication of the Third Secret, which I believe is related to the "key of David" being given to the Church, as a hermeneutical key to understanding the end-times events described in Scripture. This is also around the time that Satan was thrown down to earth in great fury after his defeat in heaven by the Archangel Michael, marked on earth by the appearance of the "signs in heaven".
The next alignment of all seven classical planets, which I believe marks the final closing of the Abyss at the end of the Short Time of Satan, will take place in the year 2020 - the year England is set to be re-dedicated as the "Dowry of Mary":
http://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2017/09/14/england-to-be-re-dedicated-as-dowry-of-mary/

Anonymous said...

Remnant Clergy:

According to the Catholic Church the Catholic Church is indefectible. According to the Catholic Church the Catholic Church is visible. According to Jesus He would be with us always. According to Jesus whoever rejects His apostles rejects Him, and whatsoever they bind or loose on earth is bound or loosed in heaven. According to the best of my knowledge, Francis was indisputably elected. Even Pope Emeritus Benedict publicly pledged obedience to him. According to Vatican I a true pope has never-failing faith. According to Vatican I there will always be papal successors.

Reconcile these data with the conclusion that Francis is a heretic and Catholicism is still true. Base it on what is publicly known, rather than conspiracy theories that sound plausible.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Thanks "Dumb Ox"! I love St. Thomas Aquinas' nickname! So ironic! It's good to know that my work is appreciated by some. Love that you have named your child after St. Jacinta!

Remnant Clergy, I've already stated that I don't want to be dragged down the whole AL route. Also, don't try to put words in my mouth which I did not say. I'm just trying to make sense of what has now become part of the magisterial teaching of the Church, and to my mind, AL simply recognises that some marriages are not considered by God to be canonically valid, which cannot be established in a tribunal and given the official "rubber stamp" in the external forum. Do not forget the words of St. Jacinta Marto: "Many marriages are not good; they do not please Our Lord, and they are not of God." I think what Pope Francis is doing is showing that we should not get bogged down in legalism like the Pharisees, and is merely recognizing that during this age of apostasy, many people are not in canonically valid marriages, because they never intended to uphold the Catholic ideal of marriage when the ceremony was conducted (believing in openness to life, permanent faithfulness and the indissobulity of marriage itself, etc.).
If you are not happy to submit your will and intellect to the current magisterium, good luck with your journey into sedevancantism. I'm staying with the true successor of St. Peter, who cannot bind the Church to formal heresy through the protection offered by the Holy Spirit. Also, I'm finished here with attempting to talk people down off the sedevacantist ledge. I think I've done the best I can, and can't offer any more apologetics on this subject for now. If anyone here is still firmly set on the path of schism, there is nothing more I can do to stop you.

Anonymous said...

The new normal in today's church is exactly new. The fact is the church is struggling with that idea that just maybe the pope might be in heresy. I say might because some clergy are suggesting that be the case. It may not be but why doesn't the pope just answer these claims instead of letting them fester? Is it the pope's intention to do just that; to let the church question herself? You can debate all you want about the intricacies of universal magisterium teachings but why doesn't the pope address these valid questions? It's as if Francis has catered to the world, the unbelieving pagan world, at the expense of his own.

KEP said...

Emmett, I'm not a "papal minimalist." I'm an orthodox Catholic. I know this subject, frankly, better than you do. As does Cardinal Burke, who disagrees with you.

The Pope is not the Prophet of Rome. We're not Mormons. He has no authority to come up with new doctrines, such as saying that capital punishment is always wrong or that adulterers can receive communion.


Jesus gave the apostles the Deposit of Faith. None of it was declared ex cathedra or in a council, but all of it is infallible.
The Pope can only reaffirm what Jesus ALREADY GAVE to the apostles, and can only clarify what was ALREADY TAUGHT. He can't come up with new contradictions or new revelations.

When we refer to the "ordinary magisterium" we refer to the Pope and/or thr bishops in Union with him reaffirming what's ALREADY CONTAINED in the deposit of faith. If it's not ALREADY IN the deposit of faith then it's not the ordinary magisterium, whether or not it's said on a plane or an encyclical.

The pope speaks ex cathedra, or a council is convened, when something within the Ordinary magisterium is debated and fought against, then these two extraordinary measures are used to defend the deposit of faith.

If you think the leader of your Church can come up with new doctrines that contradicted previous ones then I would advise you to stop being Catholic and to become a Mormon.

Bridget said...

Wow Jason! That's incredible! I bet that was scary when you couldn't remember the prayer. That sounds like an amazing experience. I hope that feeling of being safe and sounds stays forever!

Bridget said...

I also agree that something invisible is taking place in the spiritual realm, but we still have the visible nuclear threat of North Korea. So, the angel's flaming sword dies out in contact with the rays from Our Lady's hands. North Korea calls their nukes "the sword of justice." Does anyone here have well informed good ideas on how this can be resolved peacefully (and maybe quickly to reinforce the help of divine intervention)? Jason I liked your idea about China strong arming North Korea to give up their weapons or else they'll invade (to avoid the US attacking instead).

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/north-korea-readies-missile-launch-ahead-of-usled-naval-drill/news-story/ef2565758b2f939bb24694111c3de59c

Emmett O'Regan said...

Ok KEP, you obviously feel that you know this subject better than anyone. Next time you are speaking with your pastor in the internal forum, make sure you say to him that you refuse to comply with canon 752, and see how he replies. I've done my bit to try to dissuade you from this position.

Anonymous said...

There was a second swarm of earthquakes at La Palma yesterday!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/866486/La-Palma-volcano-eruption-latest-seismic-activity-swarm-Canary-Islands-update-Cumbre-Vieja

https://www.volcanodiscovery.com/la-palma-volcano-earthquakes.html

Virtue said...

I don't know if Emmett still wants me posting these lists now that we're past Oct. 13, but here's an update:

World Events:
Aug. 21 - U.S. Solar Eclipse
Aug. 21 - 4.2 magnitude earthquake at Ischia (site of unapproved Our Lady of Zaro messages)
Aug. 25 - Hurricane Harvey hits Corpus Christi, Texas
Sep. 2 - earthquake swarm in Soda Springs, Idaho (south of Yellowstone caldera)
Sep. 4 - North Korean hydrogen bomb test and ICBM tests flying over Japan
Sep. 6 - powerful geomagnetic storm with widespread Northern Lights; dozens of wildfires across U.S.
Sep. 8 - 8.1 magnitude earthquake off coast of Mexico; strange lights seen over Mexico City (city where Our Lady of Guadalupe Shrine is)
Sep. 8 - 5.2 magnitude earthquake hits Akita, Japan (site of Our Lady of Akita)
Sep. 10 - Hurricane Irma hits Florida
Sep. 19 - 7.1 magnitude earthquake in Mexico
Sep. 20 - Hurricane Maria hits Puerto Rico, particularly devastating San Juan after also hitting the Virgin Islands, Guadaloupe, and Dominica
Sep. 23 - Woman Clothed with the Sun sign; filial correction of Pope Francis made public
Sep. 27 - Popocatepetl volcano in Mexico erupts
Oct. 1 - Catalonia votes for independence from Spain
Oct. 1 - Ambae volcano in Vanuatu erupts (massive evacuations)
Vigil of Oct. 2 - Las Vegas shooting (deadliest US shooting ever)
Oct. 6 - 6.0 magnitude earthquake 125 miles from Akita, Japan
Oct. 7 - Meteor shower in constellation Draco
Oct. 7 - Start of 50+ earthquake swarm (strongest was 3.9 magnitude) over 72 hour period in the Canary Islands
Vigil of Oct. 8 - Hurricane Nate hits New Orleans
Oct. 9 - "Fire devil" phenomenon 70km from Fatima, Portugal
Oct. 9 - Massive fires on Mt. Diablo and in Napa, Sonoma, and Mendocino counties in California provoke evacuations, destroying 1,500+ homes and businesses
Oct. 10 - 6.3 magnitude earthquake near Chile/Peru/Bolivia border
Oct. 12 - Asteroid 2012 TC4 passes Earth at an altitude less than 44,000km (27,300 mi)
Oct. 13 - Start of 44 earthquake swarm (strongest was 2.1 magnitude) over 12 hour period in the Canary Islands
Oct. 13 - Pres. Trump decertifies Iran nuclear deal. Congress must decide on Dec. 12 whether to reinstate sanctions or not

Significant Religious Events:
Aug. 15 - Solemnity of the Assumption of Mary
Aug. 15 - Sep. 29 - St. Michael's Lent
Sep. 29/30 - Yom Kippur (Jewish Day of Atonement)
Oct. - month of the Rosary
Oct. 1 - Memorial of St. Therese
Oct. 2 - Feast of the Guardian Angels
Oct. 7 - Our Lady of the Rosary, First Saturday
Oct. 13 - 100th Anniversary of the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima
Dec. 12 - Memorial of Our Lady of Guadalupe

Emmett O'Regan said...

Not at all Virtue!

I just thought I should point out to others here that the Ordinary Magisterium is not some static block of teaching that can never be reformed, as KEP insists. In fact, by its very nature, the Ordinary Magisterium is reformable and dynamic, constantly changing to suit the needs of the Church in any given time period. The reformablility of Ordinary Magisterium is one of the primary reasons why it is deemed non-infallible. The Extraordinary Magisterium is irreformable and infallible.
The pope is also not some powerless figurehead who is only able to parrot irreformable timeless truths set down in the past applicable to the Church in any age, but rather has full sovereign authority over the Church, which he exercises infallibly in the Extraordinary Magisterium and in the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium, and non-infallibly (but authoritatively and binding on all Catholics) in the Ordinary Magisterium.

Anonymous said...

Some analysts believe North Korea is preparing to launch one or more missiles around October 18, the opening of the Chinese Community Party Congress. That may or may not happen, we'll have to see. But it is interesting to note that October 18 is the Feast of St. Luke (1962 Missal).

Jason R. said...

On the topic of the death penalty, I've been a life-long proponent of the consistent life ethic. Here in Canada, we got rid of the death penalty definitively as soon as a high profile case where a man who was later found to be completely innocent of a crime was essentially murdered by the state. There have been so many instances in the US of the exact same circumstances I think it calls into question whether the death penalty can be feasibly used when there is full knowledge of the defects in the justice system where routinely innocent people are wrongfully convicted, coupled with the finality that the death penalty represents.

Church teachings on the use of the death penalty have evolved over time, certainly long before Pope Francis came on the scene.

e.g. Pope St. John Paul in 1995's Evangelium Vitae argued society "ought not go to the extreme of executing the offender except in cases of absolute necessity: in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today however, as a result of steady improvements in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare, if not practically non-existent."

It is increasingly difficult to argue that in any case that incarceration cannot defend society from the danger of someone for whom the death penalty could otherwise be used. Pope St. John Paul doubled down by saying in 1999, without changing any teaching of the Church, that he sought a consensus within the Church that and within larger society that the death penalty was not needed and characterized it as "both cruel and unnecessary." and that convicted criminals be offered "an incentive and help to change his or her behaviour and be rehabilitated".

From the Catechism (2267):

"Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor. If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person".

So, it seems to me that the idea of the death penalty and it's moral acceptance has evolved in Church teachings over time, and this is once again a case of Pope. Francis being accused of just making something up out of thin air when he is merely further expounding upon existing teachings.

Many of the Fathers of the Church such as Origen, Justin Martyr, Cyyprian of Carthage, Tertullian, etc., spoke out strongly about any Catholics having anything to do with the death penalty in any way, shape or form, but late Doctors of the Church swung away from this position precisely because incarceration alone in the Middle Ages (for example), with shifting allegiances and territorial boundaries changing very often due to war, could not be guaranteed to keep someone who was a danger to society safely away from being able to inflict further harm on society. Trying to make that argument now is weak sauce with the changes in the way national borders and sovereignty are much more set.

Jason R. said...

... cont.

In the most extreme of cases of even someone as dangerous as Napoleon, incarceration sufficed, and if it had been handled properly, he would have been sent to St. Helena before Elba and his escape which led to the 100 Days. And now we have ample, ample power to keep people who are a danger to society safely off the streets without ever having to use a punishment which calls into question the sanctity of all human life, unlike in the past. The culture of death needs to be defeated in every aspect of it in my opinion.

Pope Francis has advocated that "capital sentences be commuted to a lesser punishment that allows for time and incentives for the reform of the offender." So in this he's being accused of up-ending Church teaching? That is a completely false narrative, just as I've seen when he has upheld social teachings that were laid down by Pope Leo XII and re-affirmed and expounded on by every single pope since, where Pope Francis has been accused of creating something new and contrary to Church teaching where he has done nothing of the sort. These accusations are very much like hit pieces against politicians where only half-truths are being used in the attacks that are meant to appeal to those without sufficient knowledge of the topic, which I find rather despicable in their practice, not to mention logically fallacious.

The Catholic bishops in the US have also seemed quite energized to end capital punishment, here is an example of that commitment, with their underlying rational stating "Our fundamental respect for every human life and for God, who created each person in his image, requires that we choose not to end a human life in response to violent crimes if non-lethal options are available.":

http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/death-penalty-capital-punishment/upload/5-723DEATHBI.pdf

This issue of the use of the death penalty is a nuanced one (obviously with the information I've provided), yet is being attempted to being unfairly unused against Pope Francis as a blunt-force instrument like so many other things have been, whether is it people trying to put words into his mouth by foisting positions upon him that he hasn't even taken, or ignoring what has come before him and he is just elaborating further on. It's a deeply disingenuous thing, or else something merely parroted by people who are not very well-acquainted with the background subject matter.

Or they just knowingly are rebelling against an evolved teaching that they personally disagree with. In this last case it's very hard not to be reminded of the heresy of Feeneyism, when people willfully ignored the teachings on "invincible ignorance" and "baptism of desire" in preference to their own biased and narrow interpretation of cherry-picked teachings of the Church held in isolation from other teachings. It seems to me that much of this exact situation is going on now unfortunately.

MaryP said...

By the "first see is judged by no one" is meant that no person or body is competent to formally oversee and pass judgment on Rome. However, it does not mean that people cannot judge the nature of things. This is a common confusion.

MaryP said...

Sorry, no one is using the death penalty as a blunt forced instrument except Pope Francis, who in a speech directly contravened Catholic Tradition and Scripture and who said he believes the Catechism should be changed.

Jason R. said...

Well Mary, again, I have to disagree with that and think I've provided enough very solid evidence that vis-a-vis the death penalty Pope Francis is not reinventing the wheel, or doing anything that Pope St. John Paul and the USCCB hadn't already started the work towards.

I won't belabour the point since it doesn't seem to be having any effect, but I have to add that I find it so hugely ironic that Our Lord was murdered by way of the power of the state in applying capital punishment, and he was wrongly, but lawfully convicted by the Roman authorities. That in itself I would think would give people pause when considering the morality of applying capital punishment when we know that means innocent people wrongly convicted will be murdered... I really don't get the "love affair" that some people seem to me to have with the idea of using the death penalty when it cannot be morally justified anymore when incarceration is such an easy alternative (which is keeping with the Church teaching on the matter).

Anonymous said...

And now Hurricane Ophelia is a category 3 storm heading towards Ireland and the UK...what a rare event!

Jason R. said...

Things are very quickly about to heat about in the wake of the unilateral Kurdish declaration of independce. I could see a major war brewing up around Kirkuk, that very likely will pull in Iran, maybe even Hezbollah and Russia, and most frighteningly of all, Turkey.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41621754

Virtue said...

Wow, thanks for mentioning that, Jason R.! I missed the Kurdish vote, and just looked it up to find that it was on Sep. 27. That means that on the days of both the Kurdish independence referendum and the Catalonian independence referendum there was a major volcanic eruption elsewhere in the world. Probably just coincidence, but interesting nonetheless:

Sep. 27 - Popocatepetl volcano in Mexico erupts
Sep. 27 - Kurds vote for independence from Iraq
Oct. 1 - Catalonia votes for independence from Spain
Oct. 1 - Ambae volcano in Vanuatu erupts (massive evacuations)

Jason R. said...

@Bridget,

At the risk of spamming everyone else who reads these comm@ents (though for how much I post, I'm probably way beyond that point already), I just wanted to share these words that came to me after my experience praying the rosary which was so new to me. I'm not much of a poet, but these seemed to land on my heart as whole cloth, and I just thought you wouldn't mind me sharing them with you specifically, or anyone else of course who would be interested:

Mary's Mantle

Dear Mary, I beg you for the Grace
When I am feeling blue
always to keep a smiling face
The way that you would do.

To see God's will in everything
And accept it for the best
Though my heart is heavy
To keep on singing through
and trust Him for the rest.

I've often heard it said and know
God works in many ways
bringing to Himself His children
and not let them go astray.

Dear Mother I need your helping hand
Though I know that this is true
To love Him I must say, Fiat
Take courage, just like you.

Sorry if this is clogging up the comments with bad poetry and more off-topic matters, but I felt like sharing this might not be a bad thing to do.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Jason for being open to your beautiful experience and courageously relating it to us; and praise and thank God for Romans 8:26.

Karen

Anonymous said...

Did really the period of Satan's greater power end 13 october? That would mean that the 100 year of his great power began 13 october 1917. It is hard to believe that the period began THAT day. Maybe the period began after 13 october, but before the communist's took power in Russia. So perhaps Satan has some weeks left...

Emmett O'Regan said...

"Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and in a particular way, to the Roman Pontiff as Pastor of the whole Church, when exercising their ordinary Magisterium, even should this not issue in an infallible definition or in a "definitive" pronouncement but in the proposal of some teaching which leads to a better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals and to moral directives derived from such teaching.
One must therefore take into account the proper character of every exercise of the Magisterium, considering the extent to which its authority is engaged. It is also to be borne in mind that all acts of the Magisterium derive from the same source, that is, from Christ who desires that His People walk in the entire truth. For this same reason, magisterial decisions in matters of discipline, even if they are not guaranteed by the charism of infallibility, are not without divine assistance and call for the adherence of the faithful." (Donum Veritatis 17)

Emmett O'Regan said...

"When the Magisterium of the Church makes an infallible pronouncement and solemnly declares that a teaching is found in Revelation, the assent called for is that of theological faith. This kind of adherence is to be given even to the teaching of the ordinary and universal Magisterium when it proposes for belief a teaching of faith as divinely revealed.
When the Magisterium proposes "in a definitive way" truths concerning faith and morals, which, even if not divinely revealed, are nevertheless strictly and intimately connected with Revelation, these must be firmly accepted and held.
When the Magisterium, not intending to act "definitively", teaches a doctrine to aid a better understanding of Revelation and make explicit its contents, or to recall how some teaching is in conformity with the truths of faith, or finally to guard against ideas that are incompatible with these truths, the response called for is that of the religious submission of will and intellect. This kind of response cannot be simply exterior or disciplinary but must be understood within the logic of faith and under the impulse of obedience to the faith. (Donum Veritatis 23)

Emmett O'Regan said...

"The willingness to submit loyally to the teaching of the Magisterium on matters per se not irreformable must be the rule. It can happen, however, that a theologian may, according to the case, raise questions regarding the timeliness, the form, or even the contents of magisterial interventions. Here the theologian will need, first of all, to assess accurately the authoritativeness of the interventions which becomes clear from the nature of the documents, the insistence with which a teaching is repeated, and the very way in which it is expressed.
When it comes to the question of interventions in the prudential order, it could happen that some Magisterial documents might not be free from all deficiencies. Bishops and their advisors have not always taken into immediate consideration every aspect or the entire complexity of a question. But it would be contrary to the truth, if, proceeding from some particular cases, one were to conclude that the Church's Magisterium can be habitually mistaken in its prudential judgments, or that it does not enjoy divine assistance in the integral exercise of its mission." (Donum Veritatis 24)

Virtue said...

As seen on the MOG forums: We are now in the 101st year since the Miracle of the Sun, and at Akita Our Lady shed 101 tears. Not sure if these are specifically connected (of course Fatima and Akita are connected broadly), but perhaps it is going to get a bit worse before it gets better?

Bridget said...

Jason that was a wonderful poem! Thank you for sharing! For the sake of inspiration, I think it's just fine going off topic.

Last year I was saying my daily rosary for my grandma who had been sick for a couple months and was going down hill. I remember I started saying it around 2:20 because I wanted to finish in time to see a show on TV that started at 2:40. (Doesn't that sound awful?! Ha.) Anyway, my dad had gone to visit her that day (she lived out of town) and was planning on leaving to head back home at 2:30. Well, around 2:30 I remember being very distracted and tried to really focus for the last two decades keeping in mind my intentions for my grandma. I remember finishing at 2:39 in time for the show. Anyway, a couple hours later my mom called to tell me Grandma passed away at 2:40! And my dad said at 2:30 he had an urge to stay an extra ten minutes and ended up being there when she passed. WOW. Isn't that neat??!

Jason R. said...

Bridget, thank you for that testament to how the rosary really is such a devotion that leads us to the divine grace of Our Lord, not in the same way the sacraments do, but like it your example, that is nothing short of a miracle in my mind! I have always preferred saying the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, and praying the rosary would often literally put me to sleep so I don't have much of a devotion to it even with Our Lady's exhortations to the power of it especially in our very fallen world... but people like you sharing your experiences, the experience I had, that poem... I'm really starting to be drawn and believe in the rosary at long last, and feel drawn to it in a way I never have been. Thank you for help in setting me on this path!!!

Virtue, even though I'm one of those that believe that Satan's 100 years are up, looking at how decadent and shut off from God's grace our societies have become, I can't see us turning back to Him without a chastisement, and a very big one, unfortunately. I know it won't be as retribution but as something to turn us back to Him and the true happiness that only comes from Him, and is so lacking in so many people's lives, maybe even our own as it is hard not to get caught up in the crass materialism of our age... but I envision something as big as the Babylonian Captivity with the Israelites, or the Flood of Noah's time, as being needed to turn our faces back to Our Lord. Maybe something that will destroy our societies to an extent that the survivors will have to return to an agrarian existence, who knows how pervasive it will have to be. I still pray that the world will turn with the intervention of Our Lady without such a disaster (I have a hunch it will be the effects of run-away global climate change maybe that will be the turning point), but I fear that the three-fold call of "Penance!" has not been, and will not be, heeded short of a global disaster of an unprecedented scale, but which will ultimately be a good thing for the world, kind of like the pains of childbirth lead to a beautiful new baby.

MightyRighty said...

Its very sad to see every twist and turn of current events having Apocalyptic meanings attached.
Every personal experience and fleeting thought, every circumstance and happenstance is further proof.

Many are lost to the notion that Prophecy is not a vindication of their personal bias, or need, or weakness or belief. And yet here and elsewhere real, true, substantive questions are cast aside with assurance bordering on belligerence.

We have Earthquakes!
We have storms!
We have asteroids!
We have Poetry!
We have all the ingredients for the Apocalypse!
In the final analysis we have 'Come, Lord! Come and destroy it all!'

In the final analysis what I see are mental health issues, poverty, loss and despair.
Everyone is clinging to something - FEP to his 'empty chair', the right-wingers to their legalese, the left-wingers to their abdication of personal responsibility to 'mercy', EO'R to his (obviously divisive) Papacy others to their personal ramblings, memories and inner turmoil.

Everyone dismisses the other.

But what if this farmyard of idiocy, presumption and emotion is exactly what we should be looking toward?
What if this is it?
What if who you are and where you are is exactly what is supposed to be?

Thats what I find the hardest.

;)

Bridget said...

Mighty Righty, please chill with the judgments! You're putting words in our mouths and forgetting where you are. You are in a com box for a blog about eschatology. Of course people will feel compelled to share their opinions even if it is about an earthquake here or storm there. YES, you are correct that not everything should be attached to prophetic meaning (I mean, we ARE in hurricane season...so storms are expected), but please don't call people idiots and toss around mental health attacks. Not a single person here is claiming be a prophet! This is the conclusion you're jumping to. Just because you have the anonymity of the internet doesn't mean you should be disrespectful. Share your opinion please! Just don't be mean, ok?

Anonymous said...

And nothing happens......again.

Next.

Jason R. said...

@MightyRighty

I'm sorry a piece of bad poetry was such a very personal affront to your sensibilities, or my sharing a great experience I had praying the rosary (and I am mentally ill, I have bipolar disorder, so congrats!! Great catch!!).

But as I wrote when I posted, they were for anyone interested... if you aren't interested, then just don't read them. That isn't rocket surgery to figure out, lol. If you want stricter guidelines for posting so you don't have to get so emotionally distressed, maybe you could write some up for Emmett?

Bridget, thanks for speaking up to this point, I appreciate it... some people will choose negativity I guess, but I'm glad you appreciated my sharing (and to Karen as well). I know it was O/T, but then again, maybe it could also be seen as a welcome break from all the repeating recriminations on this topic going nowhere fast in changing anyone's minds. And I *loved* the story you shared... if someone has a problem with these comment areas being used to help build each other up in our faith, well, I have no more to say on that.

Dumb Ox said...

School children in India claim to see apparition of Mary on two occasions: Sept 28 and Oct 3. This article sounds a little strange to me.

"As the children came out to pray in the church, they saw in the sky a vision of Jesus being scourged."

"As they were praying one of the girls, Anusree, told the teacher that the Blessed Virgin was standing under the altar table. They also felt the smell of jasmine flower. The children said the apparition called them to come closer. All this frightened another girl, Sivanya, who said she wanted to go from there.

"As the teacher led the children out of the church, the girls saw the apparition coming after them pleading not to go away. As the teacher went to inform other teachers, the children went to call Father Merton D’Silva, the assistant pastor."

"A similar phenomenon occurred on October 3 when a large crowd prayed the rosary in the church with the children. After some time, everyone experienced the smell of jasmine flowers. The children saw the vision again."

http://mattersindia.com/2017/10/alleged-marian-apparitions-draw-hundreds-to-kerala-church/

Mark W said...

@ MightyRighty -

Ya know what, we live in a weird world, and we're all trying to make sense of it as best we can. Example...

Here we are, in October - not a time of year when hurricanes are plentiful. And now there's a hurricane named after a mad woman from a Shakespearean play, churning in the North Atlantic. This hurricane is traveling at unnatural speeds (40 knots - they usually travel at 8-12). And it's at a location (North Atlantic) where such storms should not be.

AND IT'S HEADED STRAIGHT AT EMMETT O'REAGAN!!!

Clearly, this indicates one thing beyond a shadow of a doubt: Emmett O'Reagan is the Smoking Man from the X-Files, and is ultimately responsible for JFK's assassination and the popularity of Manchester United!

Jason - Commit this to verse and we have the trifecta!

I'm calling Art Bell.

Virtue said...

@ Dumb Ox

I also found that account to be very strange. I've never heard of visionaries being so afraid that they wanted to flee, or of Mary chasing the visionaries. Definite red flags.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Don't worry about me Mark W. I'm holed up in a nuclear bunker, which doubles up as my secret lair from where I am secretly controlling all these events with my HAARP machine :)

Anonymous said...


“Anonymous said... And nothing happens......again. Next.”

Not nothing......Unusual hurricane (Ophelia) now battering Ireland and earthquake clusters (hundreds of them) hitting La Palma. Eruption is eminent.

Ciara said...

Keep up the good fight Emmett. Interesting that this hurricane hitting Ireland right at this moment is called Ophelia. It is thought that the name either derives from the Greek ‘Ophelos’ which means ‘help’ or ‘Ophis’ which means serpent.

Anonymous said...

Greetings All,
I just read this story and I thought of this website. I guess we are told to look for "signs in the sky" and I wonder if this is one of them. Here is a link to the story:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/scientists-witness-huge-cosmic-crash-origins-gold-140024492.html
Knowing that our God knows the beginning from the end and that He would know we would have the technology to "see" (or detect) these things is why I chose to post it here. The date we saw it (or detected it) in the sky was Aug 17.
God Bless

Anonymous said...

Interesting choice of words in that article:

"When these things collide, all hell breaks loose," he said.

Aprígio Melo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aprígio Melo said...

Hey the message in Zaro to Angela on October 8th, ends with she seeing earthquakes over italy, a big rock of fire falling from the sky, tidel waves over nations and wars everywhere.

Virtue said...

World Events:
Aug. 21 - U.S. Solar Eclipse
Aug. 21 - 4.2 magnitude earthquake at Ischia (site of unapproved Our Lady of Zaro messages)
Aug. 25 - Hurricane Harvey hits Corpus Christi, Texas
Sep. 2 - earthquake swarm in Soda Springs, Idaho (south of Yellowstone caldera)
Sep. 4 - North Korean hydrogen bomb test and ICBM tests flying over Japan
Sep. 6 - powerful geomagnetic storm with widespread Northern Lights; dozens of wildfires across U.S.
Sep. 8 - 8.1 magnitude earthquake off coast of Mexico; strange lights seen over Mexico City (city where Our Lady of Guadalupe Shrine is)
Sep. 8 - 5.2 magnitude earthquake hits Akita, Japan (site of Our Lady of Akita)
Sep. 10 - Hurricane Irma hits Florida
Sep. 19 - 7.1 magnitude earthquake in Mexico
Sep. 20 - Hurricane Maria hits Puerto Rico, particularly devastating San Juan after also hitting the Virgin Islands, Guadaloupe, and Dominica
Sep. 23 - Woman Clothed with the Sun sign; filial correction of Pope Francis made public
Sep. 27 - Popocatepetl volcano in Mexico erupts
Sep. 27 - Kurds vote for independence from Iraq
Oct. 1 - Catalonia votes for independence from Spain
Oct. 1 - Ambae volcano in Vanuatu erupts (massive evacuations)
Vigil of Oct. 2 - Las Vegas shooting (deadliest US shooting ever)
Oct. 6 - 6.0 magnitude earthquake 125 miles from Akita, Japan
Oct. 7 - Meteor shower in constellation Draco
Oct. 7 - Start of 50+ earthquake swarm (strongest was 3.9 magnitude) over 72 hour period in the Canary Islands
Vigil of Oct. 8 - Hurricane Nate hits New Orleans
Oct. 9 - "Fire devil" phenomenon 70km from Fatima, Portugal
Oct. 9 - Massive fires on Mt. Diablo and in Napa, Sonoma, and Mendocino counties in California provoke evacuations, destroying 1,500+ homes and businesses
Oct. 10 - 6.3 magnitude earthquake near Chile/Peru/Bolivia border
Oct. 11 - Kirishima volcano in Japan erupts (last eruption was 2011)
Oct. 12 - Asteroid 2012 TC4 passes Earth at an altitude less than 44,000km (27,300 mi)
Oct. 13 - Start of 44 earthquake swarm (strongest was 2.1 magnitude) over 12 hour period in the Canary Islands
Oct. 13 - Pres. Trump decertifies Iran nuclear deal. Congress must decide on Dec. 12 whether to reinstate sanctions or not
Oct. 14 - Truck bomb in Somalia kills 200+, deadliest attack ever in this nation
Oct. 16 - Hurricane Ophelia hits Ireland, creates effect of a red sun
Oct. 16 - Widespread wildfires in Portugal

Significant Religious Events:
Aug. 15 - Solemnity of the Assumption of Mary
Aug. 15 - Sep. 29 - St. Michael's Lent
Sep. 29/30 - Yom Kippur (Jewish Day of Atonement)
Oct. - month of the Rosary
Oct. 1 - Memorial of St. Therese
Oct. 2 - Feast of the Guardian Angels
Oct. 7 - Our Lady of the Rosary, First Saturday
Oct. 13 - 100th Anniversary of the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima
Dec. 8 - Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception
Dec. 12 - Memorial of Our Lady of Guadalupe

Jason R. said...

Mark W., you answer made me lol for real, and made me feel less embarassed for engaging in over-sharing here... I have to try to remember that this isn't an online prayer group. There's just such a great group of people here that I forget that sometimes, but I'm going to try much harder to self-edit.

As for a poem, how about:

Haiku for Emmett O'R

Ophelia has come to redden the sun
Take shelter and tell 'er,
"Not today Sweetie, not today"

Like I wrote up above, I'm not much of a poet, haha. Seriously though, thank you both Mark W. and Emmett. I was feeling like quite a fool and maybe even a bit of a laughing stock for sharing too much O/T stuff, but both of what you fella wrote made me feel a heck of a lot better (even though I'm gonna take care to try not to bring extraneous stuff that is too personal or too O/T to the com box).

Bridget, I love what you write of your personal experience, even when it doesn't directly relate to prophecy and current events... I sure hope you haven't been deterred for continuing to share; I for one have been enriched by everything you write here.

And MightyRighty, I apologize if my post earlier wasn't very charitable and pretty snarky... my feeling were hurt and pride wounded; I understand why you'd prefer less clutter in the com boxes on Emmett's blog posts, but I also hope you can understand different people want and give different things here, and we all need I think after so much conflict over Pope Francis that got quite acid-penned at times to maybe respect each other's views and topics, even the ones we don't agree with. Toleration can lead to a much richer sharing and exchanges of ideas, which intoleration may intimidate others from writing.... and I think all of us would be much poorer for that kind of forum environment (and though these aren't technically forums, they seem to serve many of the same purposes a lot of the time. If I ever had enough money for some server space and Emmett's permission, I'd actually build a forum for the fans of his books and blogs to share in properly designated areas so not to get on anyone's nerves.

But anyways MightyRighty, I've been rude to you in the past and apologized for it, but I did it again and again feel badly and hope you can forgive my mocking and sarcastic tone.

Anonymous said...

Virtue,

I'm not sure whether you are including things of this sort in your list, but on October 13, the US government formally settled with plaintiffs challenging the HHS contraceptive mandate. This is a huge victory for the Church and many organizations who objected to the mandate on pro-life/religious freedom grounds. Much more remains to be done, but this is a meaningful step toward reorienting US laws toward moral ends and the common good. It is also significant in terms of Emmett's prior analysis of Our Lady of Guadalupe and the slaughter of innocents.

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/department-of-justice-announces-settlement-in-hhs-mandate-suits

Catherine

Mark W said...

Earthquake swarm around the Canary Islands has intensified. 44 earthquakes up to magnitude 2.1 from 1:52pm last Friday to 4:17am last Saturday. Number of quakes now estimated to be 352. The majority have been between Tenerife and Gran Canaria, but quite a few are under Cumbre Vieja. It looks like they're moving upward as well, as if magma of steam were rising. I haven't found anything about outgassing or ground swelling.

Aprígio Melo said...

Wow

MightyRighty said...

@Jason R
And MightyRighty, I apologize if my post earlier wasn't very charitable and pretty snarky... my feeling were hurt and pride wounded

Jason, no personal offence was meant on my part and no offence was taken from your (or others) reply.
You dont owe me an apology.

Im more of an 'evidence' type of person than a 'personal experience' type of guy, if that makes sense.
I've studied Prophecy for a long, long time and remember when the Ayatollah Khomeni (sp?) was touted as the Anti-Christ. I remember when Gorbachev had the 'Mark of the beast' and the shuttle Challenger explosion was a 'sign-in-the-sky'.

All I ask is that people not be fooled by the idea that every little tick and tock on the clock of their life be seen as final. It is not.
Life is long and (in spite of how it seems) things are good.

Its easy to be fooled, moreso when the devil is in the detail and we are exhausted in the search; delving ever deeper into the present instead of building a future.
A future that we may not benefit from but others will.

And so the sacrifice we wish to emulate as Catholics is Here and Now; overcoming our fears and prejudices to pass something on.
Overcoming our ourselves in the service of others.

Is this not the faith we espouse?

Jason R. said...

@MightyRighty

Fair enough, that makes a lot of sense... we risk by jumping at every shadow being so distracted by impending doom that we may forget to use our time and talents to build up the Church as we should. I don't know the exact scriptural passage, but it was something like Our Lord telling us what His day comes He wants to see us working in the field, living life for today. Yours is a very good reminder. Things like the seismic activity around La Palma are maybe a bit more menacing than the usual, and Our Lord also did tell us to watch for the signs of the times, but for me at least, your point is very well taken, thank you!

Virtue said...

Thanks, Catherine! I think that is very significant and will add it to the list. It seems that more and more significant things are being revealed about Oct. 13 already as the days pass, and fortunately this is a positive one!

Bridget said...

MightyRighty, I do understand you better now. So thank you! I just like throwing things in to break up the constant back and forth sometimes. :)

Dumb Ox said...

Linked off of Spiritdaily - includes caution about tabloid source.

http://blog.spiritdaily.com/news-links/dangerous-volcano-coming-to-life

Dangerous Volcano Coming To Life
October 18, 2017 by SD
Share
Tweet
From the London Express:

La Palma volcano

LA PALMA volcano’s red-hot magma has risen after its recent flurry of earthquakes causing the ground on the Canary Islands to “significantly” rise above ground level, experts said.
Volcano experts discovered the ground in the area surrounding local hotel Teneguia Princess hotel has risen by about 1 cm to the south and 3.5 cm upwards over the past year, according to GPS sensors regulating ground deformation.

[For Full Story; caution, explicit tabloid]

Mark W said...

That report from the tabloid has been picked-up by other news outlets. This is what volcanodiscovery.com says:

"Recently, new seismic activity has started under the Cumbre Vieja volcano, which is the historical active volcano of the island (occupying its southern half). Two small earthquake swarms occurred during 8-9 and 13 Oct under the southern part of the island.

The quakes were small, up to magnitudes of 2.9, and still relatively deep (15-30 km depth), but probably indicate that the magmatic system of the volcano has entered a phase of re-charging by deep magma intrusion at and under the base of the crust.

It is too early to say much about whether this is a precursor of new activity in a not-too-distant future (months to years), but certainly something that merits close monitoring.
Cumbre Vieja volcano is one of the most active in the Canaries and has had historical eruptions in 1585, 1646, 1712, 1949, and 1971."

They've upgraded it from 1 to 2 (out of 5). It's now considered "restless".

Dr. Sanity said...

I have never before commented, but have followed this blog and its comments for some years. I am wondering if anyone else sees the significance of the neutron star collision in the constellation Hydra that was first seen August 17 (within the span of St. Michael's Lent). There are so many interesting considerations. First, this was the first time humanity had ever witnessed such an event in the heavens; Hydra is a multiheaded serpent from the sea (I think it has 9 heads) and was slayed by Hercules in Greek myth; Hydra is also the sister of Draco the dragon in myth. Although astronomers only saw this event in August, it actually occurred 130 million years ago, which would put it in geological time, when mammals were evolving on earth. My thoughts are that there are two possibilities of interpretation: 1) could this be the remnants of the epic battle between St. Michael and Lucifer after which the latter was cast down to earth? Or, alternatively, could this be the signal of the rise of the antichrist (i.e., the multiheaded beast from the sea in Revelation 13. Pat S.

Mark W said...

Hi Pat,

(Dr. Sanity - we could use a bit of that from time to time.)

I saw this in the news a few days ago. It is curious, isn't it. It's especially curious given the fact that we just found it, at this particular moment in history. It's even more interesting given that one of the scientists said, "when these things collide, all hell breaks loose."

But at this point, I don't have anything more. I haven't, myself, been able to come up with any other angles that play into the eschatology. Hydra is an interesting location (and the number of heads depends on the source - some don't mention, some say 9, some say 50, I think). But Hydra just doesn't strike me as being compelling right now. I could be proven wrong, and it's something to keep in mind, but I don't have any idea what it might be just at this juncture.

And don't sweat the timing. I think the time we notice something is more important than the time it took place.

Sorry I don't have anything more substantive.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone else noticed or heard about the miracle of the sun that supposedly occurred on Oct. 13, 2017 at Benin Nigeria? The Bishops of Nigeria consecrated the country to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and then supposedly....see video on YouTube:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=42V1efH4YbE

Interesting.

Bridget said...

Anonymous,

Wow! I've watched a few videos of this. Wild. It's actually being "explained" as the blinking sun phenomenon where charged hot spots emit visible blinkers due to extreme heat.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/1998/01/blinking-sun

But this phenomenon just so happened to occur on the centenary of the Miracle of the Sun? During the National Marian Congress? After the consecration of the country to the Immaculate Heart of Mary?

So if it's a legit phenomenon, I wonder where else it was seen?

MaryP said...

Two things, one from MAgister and Pope's friend Scalfar, and the other concerning religious submission and its limits.

http://magister.blogautore.espresso.repubblica.it/2017/10/20/worlds-end-update-the-last-things-according-to-francis/

http://www.lmschairman.org/2017/10/a-friendly-warning-to-opus-dei.html

psieve2 said...

I don't know if it's my phone or comments need approval, but I will try this again and delete any duplicates:
It's best not for both sides, modernist and traditionalist, to confuse from both sides. We know doctrine cannot change, so it would not change anything for Pope Francis to be heretical, even if he were falsely elected or the anti-prophet, no less. Jesus told Pilate he (Pilate) was only in charge because his Father willed it--same with K. Herod. Who am I to excuse myself from a punishment upon the poorly faithful? As with Vatican 2, whether you argue if it were binding or not, things were done to the liturgy and customs not prescribed by V2 and even against them in some places. What was ever done well after it was know what the "experts" did? Well, I guess they may not have broken any laws in removing altar rails or allowing altar girls. It became allowed after enough abused the Mass enough. So, does a pope have to err materially or formally for error to reign? Can one not keep his hands clean, if nothing broke any rules, yet people inferred error? I'm not saying post V2 popes have been so cunning, but both sides of this debate could be right. Maybe thepopes' minds have been so clouded they have seen a greater good where there was none that they ignored the fallout as the reforms not being properly carried out or the people not getting it. Scandal could have occurred innocently, but happened, nonetheless. V2 could have been the message, yet have been free of doctrinal error. People were confused after V2 was conveyed to them as it were and, like today, saw it as things having changed about needing to goto Mass every Sunday, confess art least one's a year or the ban on contraception. Clarifying people on those things are important, but calling into question the Council's documents or the popes' authority might open a Pandora's box. I am not sure how, in this environment, after the past silly synods, have confused people further, a Vatican 3 Council would be any different. We will know what was taught faster, but we have millions more voices interpreting them to everyone.
It is a good practice to excuse the Pope and not condescendingly, like he's a confused old man. I am not sure the Fatima Crusaders' concept of recent popes being restricted by a kind of Vatican mafia is condescending. He could have some master plan, though he would be fiddling with the Devil in doing so and could lose it all. He could be like a Samson shaking the pillars and causing a proverbial roof to collapse upon the heretics with him going down with them. Maybe he's keeing his enemies closer and expects the faithful to hold on a little longer, while those interpreting the changes in a self-serving way to be lost regardless whether he succeeds or not. Maybe he is aware of "The Lord of the World"'s presence and is keeping the heretical higher clergy from joining him, by appearing as a false prophet--a man of sin. I think it's wrong for him to play those games, as no one should infer greater liberties to denounce him or to do what they will, but that might be his deal.

I wish Emmett would get in on the discussion. It's like he makes his case, drops the Mic and walks off. I appreciate his taking chances at losing his audience to tell us what we don't want to hear, but I think he should defend his thesis.

psieve2 said...

He was in my city, KC, Is., for some years. I think he got too sick from something and couldn't do it anymore. Did he get better and got reassigned, elsewhere?. Fr. Isaac Relyea got more recognition in the wider Catholic speaker circuit. He was the associate when Fr. Wolfe was there. Having not been a traditionalist, I learned a lot from them and their successors I didn't in school and Masses.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Thanks for your input Psieve! I do wish that I had more time to devote to papal apologetics, but this blog is primarily concerned with eschatology. There are plenty of other individuals far more qualified than me on this subject who are dealing with the various complications our current situation presents. I don't feel this is the proper place for this debate. It is already widely discussed elsewhere, and I think we should leave it to the side here for now. At least until I'm ready to put forward a full, detailed response, instead of attempting to address it piecemeal in the comments section here.
As a counterbalance for Mary P's selection above, I would encourage readers to engage with Fr. Tim Staples' apologetics addressing the concerns presented by some aspects of this papacy: http://timstaples.com/blog/defending-pope-francis-pt-1
There are a number of parts to this series. I would suggest readers familiarise themselves with all of these articles, in order to provide some intellectual balance to this debate.

Anonymous said...

http://angelqueen.org/2017/10/20/72305/#comments



Raymond Cardinal Burke: New Apologist for the Sedevacantists?

John F. Salza, Esq.

Jason R. said...

Thanks for the link Emmett, Fr. Staples explains everything in a way that ties things together... I already kind of knew that the definition of what makes something a mortal sin compared to a venial sin was the crux of the matter, but this really pulled it altogether.

For convenience sake for anyone else who read part 1, here are the links to the other parts (as well as part 1 for completeness sake):

http://timstaples.com/blog/defending-pope-francis-pt-1

http://timstaples.com/blog/defending-pope-francis-pt-2

http://timstaples.com/blog/defending-pope-francis-pt-3-the-feeding-frenzy

http://timstaples.com/blog/defending-pope-francis-pt-4-not-another-footnote

Thanks again, this series of articles, concise and to the point but with such great information is not one to be missed.

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